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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hi Mumsnet, if you are asking feminist women to consider whether Mumsnet is for them, please be clear that the space *we* made here is for *all* of us.

338 replies

leyat · 02/05/2018 23:41

So apparently MNHQ is asking women they are suspending for saying things like men are men, to consider whether Mumsnet is for them.

I feel it's important to be clear that we want feminist women to have a home here, we - all the women who engage here - have made this board what it is (I'm relatively new so I am in awe of the women who have been shaping this wonderful space all this time) and we don't want women excluded from this space because they won't lie about biology and acquiesce to misogyny and genderism.

This is meant to be a kind of refuge for us, where we do not have to submit to male authority, where we can let off steam and share without needing to worry about dealing with misogyny, and where we can feel a degree of safety and find sisterhood. I can't think of anything more awful than a woman who comes here to share in this, in this one space we have that's meant to be ours, to then be told she should consider excluding herself because she won't bow to male authority on what a woman is.

So it needs saying, Mumsnet, this is a board for all feminist women, we don't want anyone excluded or made to feel that this space isn't for them too. And please understand many women come here from backgrounds of abuse, we do live in a climate of male violence and misogyny that is currently getting worse, so I hope MNHQ take time to ask themselves how they want to treat women who come here. Mumsnet own the site, but it's the women who use this space who made it the vibrant refuge of sisterhood and resistance that it is, so please don't shit on that or indeed on the women who actually engage on your forum.

OP posts:
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Flomper · 03/05/2018 07:58

which would be interesting imo as then maybe the press would make comment on 4chan et al and all the other homophoboc and mysoginist and rascist comments on that and other subs that promis actual never mind literal violence, instead of berating MN which is positively pedestrian compared to that mob.

Mogleflop · 03/05/2018 07:56

Link here to GenderCritical on Reddit.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2018 07:56

Could MNHQ clarify if they are genuinely suspending posters for saying men remain men ?

If so, that is genuinely shocking censorship

I agree the TRAs won't stop at FWR
Next step would be to censor how posters discuss fundamental aspects of biology that men don't share:
menstruation, infertility, BF, birth, birth injuries, meno, MALE violence …

Women who never look at FWR could be seriously affected once the principal of TRA censorship has been surrendered

It's not even censoring views, but punishing posters for stating scientific facts

By definition, women & girls are homogametic, with two of the same kind of sex chromosomes, XX,
whereas boys & men are heterogametic, with both X and Y chromosomes, typically XY but very occasionally XYY or XXY

Chromosomes are not altered by taking hormones, having surgery, wearing dresses & makeup, or claiming to be women.
Even if millions of other people join in the game of "Let's Pretend", the biology is unchanged.

As a scientist, censoring biological facts would indeed make me wonder if this site is for me
I don't do woo.

If the "Intelligent Design" religious lobby (already powerful in the US) report bomb those who post facts about evolution, would MN cave in and suspend the evolutionists in response ? Hmm

Flomper · 03/05/2018 07:55

There nothing stopping us setting up a reddit site

Mogleflop · 03/05/2018 07:55

@DrinkFeckArseGirls the gender critical subreddit board might be a good place to decamp if it comes to it. Maybe we should be saying that on these boards more often.

FlyMaybe · 03/05/2018 07:53

Totally agree OP

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 03/05/2018 07:52

I have absolutely no IT knowledge but if someone has - could we have our own online platform to diacuss the bleeding obvious? There was a talk about it several months nack on one of the threads - surely some IT people are on here, not all in the other camp Wink

Mogleflop · 03/05/2018 07:51

@JustineMumsnet what's going on?

Didn't you recently go loud on a Times article saying people should be allowed free speech/to be able to discuss things?

Why have your mods apparently shifted to more aggressive stances? Is there something new you need to tell us about your site's position?

Or are you seeing more trolls sign up to post really horrible things and then getting regular users caught up in those bans?

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 03/05/2018 07:47

@berkinbag I was talking about the FWR space.
That’s a lot of unsubstantiated conclusions you jumped to there.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 03/05/2018 07:41

Are people really suspended for stating scientific, biological fact?

Yes.

MN deleted a post the other day by Cote which had the dictionary definition of the word female.

ferntwist · 03/05/2018 07:40

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 03/05/2018 07:39

FWR is first.

Then it will be the boards talking about childbirth, infertility treatment, breastfeeding. Threads talking about periods. Then Relationships.

And if you're deleted by MNHQ for posting comments like "yawn", "bless" and the dictionary definition of a word, then AIBU and most other boards will fall soon after.

GrimSqueaker · 03/05/2018 07:38

Are people really suspended for stating scientific, biological fact?

Sounds it. And we've always been at war with Eastasia...

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/05/2018 07:32

Until vexatious complaints are treated as harassment, plus the complainants given consequences, the narcissists will continue to pull strings and bully by proxy

therealposieparker · 03/05/2018 07:28

First they'll silence the feminists, then language around birth, breastfeeding this narcissists won't stop.... they are incensed by women who don'\t buckle. All the libfems who are currently allies to trans women will find themselves coming second.... they are too stupid to see this. Narcissists have to win at all costs.

AnitaLovesVictor · 03/05/2018 07:24

They won't stop at the FWR board, Berkin.

That's just first on their list.

FlaviaAlbia · 03/05/2018 07:24

I think you might be putting too much onto the feminist board here. Its not a safe space or a refuge. It's a board where we can discuss feminism.

MNHQ are walking a tricky line at the minute and keep discussion open more than most other sites.

InTheRoseGarden · 03/05/2018 07:16

Well said

BerkInBag · 03/05/2018 07:13

When you ban us all, and you change the entire shape of this space, what will you have left ?

Losing the FWR board will change the whole shape of Mumsnet? I don't think so. It will mean the loss of a forum for discussion on a particular topic but life will go on for Mumsnet. Are you suggesting that the rest of the women on here who use other boards to seek much needed advice are somehow less than those on FWR?

therealposieparker · 03/05/2018 07:07

It is a great shame when trans activists, mostly if not all born males, can bully women into not being able to speak about the mass gaslighting and abuse inflicted on them by narcissistic males.

It feels like we are all in an abusive relationship with these men.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 03/05/2018 06:53

Are people really suspended for stating scientific, biological fact?

I’m so over the ridiculous Orwellian world we live in where it is transphobic and a suspension-worthy offence to speak the truth.

MNHQ must have read The Emperor’s New Clothes even if they haven’t read 1984 - if they still can’t see the dangers of jumping on the bleating bandwagon of “everything’s transphobic” maybe they are right that MN isn’t the place for intelligent women any more. And maybe that’s what they want.

VikingVolva · 03/05/2018 06:52

this site is owned and run by MNHQ and this space is theirs.

Just like the same of all MN.

It's one topic, and the user input isn't so different anywhere else (apart from a higher tolerance of self-aggrandisement). Remember al, the threads in Site Issues about everything from size of ads onwards? Plus the FWR wars of old? We're simply content generators which can be monetised. And FWR is indeed just another topic -MNHQ said so, haven't said different since, and that's a point that shouid not be lost from view.

Tanith · 03/05/2018 06:47

“I'm hoping the HQ tactic is 'show us what you've got - not a lot is it?' But then they will need a whole army of staff to manage the slew that will come.”

I’m not so sure. A lot of the lazy blighters on Twitter can’t be bothered to look on MN for posts they object to. They never did, just blindly repeated what they were told.
So now they’re reduced to making umbrella posts “This is my complaint about anything that includes the word Trans” and a collecting thread for everyone else to post anything they find.

Jeanhatchet · 03/05/2018 06:41

@KriticalSoul @Tartyflette or have I misunderstood you both?

Jeanhatchet · 03/05/2018 06:39

@KriticalSoul @Tartyflette .... my apologies to you Tartyflette! I clicked he wrong user name! The perils of being a newbie. My comment was quite clearly directed at kritical soul.