Trans Media Watch has written to parliament saying 'trans identified male' can be considered as hate speech, and that Mumsnet users referring to penises are being transphobic.

We are getting to the point when we really need to organise. The other side clearly are. We have loads of skilled people on here.

Why is stating the truth so hateful to them? Trans Identified Male, what do those words actually mean? There's nothing inaccurate (hardly a crime if there were) or salacious or intrinsically unpleasant in them. Same for 'men'. It may not be how the individual wants to be seen, but so what? I want to be seen as all sorts of things I'm probably not. So what - again? I've been spending time nosing around on KiwiFarms, the stuff on there is way worse than anything here. As a slight aside, I saw one would-be politician claim on KF that the claim that he'd lied about his age was transphobic. So if that's the yardstick .... I really think it's because most of us are women and we are held to a different standard, this is obvious from all the comments about what MN started as, and is therefore its 'real' purpose that it has been deflected from by this monstrous regiment of women.

Personally, I think adding Terf and cis to the hate speech list would be a mistake. We need to ensure terms are taken off the list, not more added.

Re misogyny being a hate crime: don't know if people are aware but here's the Nottinghamshire Police section on hate crime and it's revealing. www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/hatecrime.

Notice the definition of hate crime - A hate crime is any incident where someone is targeted because of their identity. Hate crime can take any shape and isn't always illegal behaviour, but it is always motivated by prejudice, often in the following areas:

Race
Religion
Sexual orientation
Disability
Transgender
Misogyny
Alternative sub-culture e.g. goth

For all the areas people are targeted on the basis of these i.e. race, religion. Misogyny is the only one that doesn't make it clear why women are targeted: because of our sex. They make it sound like it could happen to anyone.

Ditto re doing something - and being REALLY demonstrably clear all the way through that it is NOT transphobic.

Wtf? This is horrific.

'T*f' and 'cis' should be hate speech. In fact, a couple of people have suggested censoring routinely censoring 'T*F' and see if we can get this to catch on.

good thinking Trousers. Thanks for linking Upstart.
Just imagine how we'd feel without this forum. Just to know others feel similarly really helps. This is chain yourself to the railings stuff.

Ellenripley yes, I see trans people spoken of in much more disparaging terms on public Twitter accounts every day - vile comments which would quite correctly be deleted if they were posted on MN. I'll leave you to guess the declared gender of the overwhelming majority of those posters.

I've saved a word version in case it gets take down.

I'm baffled how women are going to be able to talk about contraception and pregnancy in any meaningful way in the future.

UpstartCrow That worked! Thanks

Try this link;

www.socresonline.org.uk/12/1/whittle.html

Is there another link to the Stephen Whittle paper? That link is dodgy when I tried it, and I haven't found the paper on Google.

YY to getting organised.

I actually posted it on the Stephen Whittle thread and asked how SW feels about demobilising women and girls. The response - " I would have done anything to feel safe.

Well it's time for us to respond in kind. DM me or ElleTorro.

Why is Mumsnet being so targeted? There are so many other places online where the transphobia is properly rife, and I'm talking about the full on sort of stuff that I can't repeat on here.

It just says everything that women and MN in particular are the targets of these people.

I just read Stephen Whittles paper which someone linked to and it's made me feel completely Ill it's so full of shit.

Yep, that paper peak Peak PEAKED me. I am not generally prone to conspiracy theories, but the utter prescience of Orwell's 1984 became stark after reading that Whittle paper. Chilling.

Yes that's me, I keep posting it over and over. DM me if you really want to work on dealing with this.

Its imperative that we get organised

That link is dodgy unfortunately...

link to the Wittle paper

www.socresonline.org.uk/12/1/whittle.html

Fuck this shit.

Why are these people trying to shut women up so desperately?

Fucking pathetic.

Women have rights, you cannot just remove them from us!

I just read Stephen Whittles paper which someone linked to and it's made me feel completely Ill it's so full of shit.

Yep, that paper peak Peak PEAKED me. I am not generally prone to conspiracy theories, but the utter prescience of Orwell's 1984 became stark after reading that Whittle paper. Chilling.

I'm heartened to see that Nottinghamshire Police are treating misogyny as a hate crime. Question is, could an 11yo trans girl masturbating in the school showers in front of other girls be treated as an act of misogyny? It might be if the perp was a boy.

mobile.twitter.com/TracyXXs/status/975379101761486848

Once again, this boils down to conflict of interests whereby women want to have separate terms that denote categorisation by sex and gender identity and trans people want to have terms that combine them.

I do find myself frustrated by intolerance expressed with regard to people having these interests. Women should be free to express why they want what they want and trans people should be free to express why they want what they want. We really should be able to have discussions about differing/ competing interests without it becoming a slanging match.

I think trans advocates become fearful and then angry (and sometimes aggressive) because they know that women's requests are likely to be considered to be reasonable if they get to be properly heard. I think women become frustrated and angry because their voices are often not heard because they are dismissed as being 'anti-trans' in advance of being fully expressed.

We need to continue to work confidently and persistently IRL to ensure women's voices are heard. Social media and Mumsnet is great for awareness raising but it doesn't seem to be hitting the spot in terms of getting heard by the people who can influence the outcome of the consultation, once if takes place. I am confident that the many persuasive activities that are going on IRL will make headway.

The delay in the consultation about the GRA is in our favour because it has given us a lot more time to get organised and beaver away. I think trans activists are likely to become more and more aggressive in trying to stop women's voices being heard, but the cat is now out of the bag and we are being heard so we need to keep on keeping on and we will be heard!

Think they are either blinded to it by the rhetoric, or afraid that their already tenuous hold on political life might be taken away.

Those who see this for what it is need to join together and speak up. I hope someone will.