Benjamin Zephaniah "...are you controlling a woman?"

This is the first time I've heard a poet say he was 'just following the crowd'. Really?

Worrying too, this revelation, that the accepted norm around him was one of DV.

I want violent men to change, and I want to be glad when they do change, because that means less violence towards women.

BZ is not there, yet - the minimising, the absolving of responsibility ("I was just following the crowd") and all the rest of it. But it's a start, and I want to see what he does with it, particularly in terms of challenging forms of masculinity.

(But argh, is there any man left on the planet who has a history to be proud of, or do all of them have something to confess?)

Thats probably fair point counterpoint.

Sadly, because of the timing, and some undercurrents in his phrasing, it sounds like he was probably informed that it was only a matter of time before his beatings came out in the media. So, it's better for him to confess them now, with his own well-chosen words (he is a wordsmith after all), than have the finger pointed at him for domestic violence by another.

Another tarnished role model.

Dione id agree he didn't seem to sound like he saw women as equals. There were other comments elsewhere which retained that tone.

His comments about his ex partner were about more to do with the culture of how masculinity was viewed and being an aggressive male was viewed as attractive because of social conditioning.

I got the feeling it was that which shocked him, not so much looking down on his ex partner but the whole culture of which he had been part of which he couldn't comprehend once he tried to look at it from a woman's pov.

I think the article reads more like it was personal against her rather than a wider reflection that he made it out to be.

He minimised domestic violence and what he did, but at the same time made the point that even 'minor' aggression and controlling was totally unacceptable.

I think we are much more used to women making these arguments as victims rather than a man making these arguments as someone who had been guilty of these crimes. When we see the argument from this pov, we always want to be critical of them for doing something unacceptable. Because we see it from the victims pov. This woman didn't see herself as a victim and that's what is jarring and what the comment was about. Equally we don't often see a guilty man express remorse never mind that same revelation about a victim who has been so conditioned not just to see it as normal behaviour but preferred behaviour.

If things are going to change, you have to have men challenging their own and saying their roles they were taught are just wrong. I do think women can only say so much unfortunately. Because of that underlying view of women as not equals and not understanding male mentality and hierarchy of social structure.

Thats why I think the interview was of value. BZ did not have to volunteer information which people will look at and judge him for. He's not a hero for doing it either. Its just necessary if that makes sense.

sorry but BZ is an idiot who is just jumping on the 'me too' bandwagon to try and sell some more crappy poems.

Arse I'm
Going to have to read the book before I give it to her aren't I?
L

I don't think it was a 'mistake'. Did he hit her by accident?

I have a general problem with the way that society is prepared to excuse and forgive perpetrators of DV (step forward Stan Collymore, Paul Gascoigne...). From the article, it appeared that BZ wasn't "only" violent when he got angry, but he was also controlling and coercive. He was a DV perpetrator in more ways than one, as well as a minimiser ("I didn't do it all the time, I'm not as bad as some other men")

I agree it's important to be able to let people acknowledge their mistakes, grow and move on from them. I agree it's vital that men talk about how unacceptable this behaviour is.

I don't think that means that he should get a free ride

I do think it's just a term of phrase for him - the 'that'.

Thanks Ancient for that synopsis.

' I said to her, ‘I’m really sorry for the way I acted in the past. It wasn’t me, I was just following the crowd,’” '
That is not taking responsibility for past behaviour IMO.

I heard BZ being interviewed on R4's 'Front Row' this evening & he talked about that incident, I think he only talked of it as one time. He said he was 15 when it happened (ok still no excuse) and he went to see the girl/woman concerned years later and she told him she though he was a wimp. I'm not sure whether she thought that because he'd gone to apologise or she'd thought that at the time. Someone upthread mentions his use of 'that' in 'there was one girlfriend that I had' - personally I would prefer 'who' for a person, but if you listen to American English they will usually say 'people that ....' so I don't really think we can say it proves anything about BZ and objectification or anything to undesirable, it could just be the influence of his Caribbean background.

Thank you RTB. I was gutted to hear this as had considered getting his autobiography for a dear friend who left a verbally abusive and controlling husband and is a huge fan of his. I'm still not sure if I can actually if it is going to describe this sort of thing but it would be good to find out more.

I have no doubt he feels remorseful, after all it was disrupting his meditation. His comments regarding his victim's response to his apology were unnecessaryand made to portray her as deserving of or desiring DV.

BZ has stopped beating and controlling women but I think he is still a long way off regarding us as equals.

I don't think domestic violence is an 'error'.

Thank you RTB. I have listened to it and also felt that he was genuinely remorseful.
Surely we have to accept that people can change and regret their past actions? I realise how difficult that is, but we have to be allowed to 'atone' for our errors and I thought that was what I heard.

How many of you listened to the whole interview yesterday?

I did.

He was very remorseful and made the point that it was two blokes talking about the subject which wasn't ideal.

But he also made the point that it was necessary as man talk about why he was wrong to other men to change attitudes and crush this idea that this was a mans role and how they had to demonstrate to other men their masculinity and break the culture of toxic masculinity.

I therefore don't think the extract does the whole conversation justice.

I listened, uncomfortably at first (expecting excuses) but by the end I think it was fair enough position. I don't think he ever justified it beyond saying he was wrong, a fool and a follower who was a hypocrite who didn't think.

In terms of apologising, he did so to the person involved. And he hasn't tried to deny what he did. Indeed the anecdote was offered unsolicited and without a leading question into it. It was an issue he thought important and should get attention.

I'd encourage anyone this has bothered to have a listen on catch up. It was on about 2pm yesterday on radio 5.

"At one point I was violent. I was never like one of these persons who have a girlfriend, who’d constantly beat them, but I could lose my temper sometimes"

Ah, that's OK. He wasn't one of those domestic abusers, he only did it sometimes

BZ's autobiography was Book Of The Week on Radio4 recently.

This week. I heard some this morning, talking about stealing tools, friends getting shot by rival gangs, and being a decorator for prostitutes. I'm not surprised to hear of more violence.

Yes. Yes you should. Totally reasonable. How dare that nasty cat have her own thoughts and feelings, rather than just behaving exactly as you wish, all the time? Outrageous!

The more I read things like this, the more that saying about 'feminism being the radical notion that women are people,' makes sense to me. Men like this just can't bear the idea that women might have thoughts and feelings of their own, can they? We're the supporting characters in their film, and we need to stick to the script.

BZ's autobiography was Book Of The Week on Radio4 recently.

I only heard one ep which was about his father's violence towards his mother that ultimately caused her to flee with BZ.

Iirc, he spoke about them not being welcomed at a women's refuge and his father attacking his mother in the street some time later.

I'm shocked now about his behaviour towards his ex.

Yes, he clearly only did it because she really wanted him to. She probably made him do it. Shame his meditation sucks as a result. Ah well.

Man, the knowledge that I once accidentally stood on my cat's tail is really interfering with my yoga practice. Should I force her to say she forgives me, and then write nasty things about her in the newspaper if she doesn't?