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Original poster

Motherhood and equality, what does Eutopia look like?

186 replies

Bumpitybumper · 02/05/2018 04:47

I accept that I'm incredibly slow to the party, but a few threads and specific posts that I've read have really highlighted to me that motherhood lies at the heart of feminism. Whilst I wouldn't say the battle has been completely won for women prechildren, statistics around earnings and education do look promising, however it seems all of this drops off a cliff once kids arrive. I think this is related to lots of factors, some of which are within women's control (eg choosing to be a SAHM) and some not (eg not being able to afford the childcare required to work).

In this context I have been pondering what equality looks like in a post children world. Personally I think it would involve society viewing an individual's career as a lifespan with expected peaks and troughs. It is madness that the peak decades for building your career are also the decades when women are fertile. I think there should be a greater acceptance that when someone has kids it is natural and normal to want to spend time with them and this probably will not be compatible with working long hours and doing lots of travel for work. This should all be a standard expectation of men and women with young families so things like flexible working should be encouraged and time spent at home should be viewed as a pause on a career, not a termination of a career. The big pay off for such an approach would be that as kids grow and parents are able to refocus on their careers, nobody would be too heavily penalised for gaps in CVs or a few years on the career slow track. This would make it much easier for women and men to close any gaps that may have opened up. It also doesn't ignore the reality that parents with young kids simply do not have the flexibility and time that childfree employees have to devote to their career without effectively never seeing their children which is unacceptable to many.

Is my view of equality post children Eutopia in line with what others think? I can see a shed load of challenges to making mine work, but it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility.

OP posts:
Offred · 02/05/2018 07:10

The sexist narrative that stems from it involves many things like ‘all women are desperate breeders’ ‘all men have to desperately avoid women who want to trick them into babies’ and a narrative where the focus is entirely on suspicion about women’s adherence to hormonal contraception and men re contraception being limited to ‘trusting’ women to take it.

I find it frightening that so many men truly believe that their entire role in contraception, even in ONS is ‘she looks trustworthy and has said she’s on the pill’ and how this then feeds into ‘she trapped me’ as a way to abandon responsibility for a resulting child.

I do think sex education and education about contraception is a big factor but this is made a lot of whilst misogynistic attitudes and the resulting abusive interactions are entirely absent from any aspect of debate, research or discussion that is not within specific ‘women’s abuse services’.

ISaySteadyOn · 02/05/2018 07:04

That's really scary, Offred. Why is that do you think? I really hate the idea of women and girls being pregnant against their will.

Offred · 02/05/2018 07:04

Yes I agree re motherhood as a choice. I really disagree with the framing of motherhood as a choice FULL STOP. It is such a pervasive attitude applied to women it makes me sensitive! The idea that abusive men use pregnancy and children to control women is really almost entirely limited to specialist domestic violence services and is not seen generally in society.

Ciao2Roma · 02/05/2018 07:02

What's 'Eutopia'?

Offred · 02/05/2018 07:01

Even research into unintended pregnancy doesn’t acknowledge the concept of abuse being a factor despite handwringing about ‘teenage pregnancy’ and this group of women/girls suffering the highest rates of abuse.

ISaySteadyOn · 02/05/2018 07:00

Surely that means we should be even more inclined to help each other precisely because we don't know the circumstances? Rather than framing motherhood as a choice, look at what is happening now and do what we can inasmuch as we feel able?

Offred · 02/05/2018 06:54

Can I gently remind that not all women with children have chosen to have them or to be at home with them. Forcing pregnancy, controlling access to contraception/abortion, controlling access to work through the imposition of children are all ways that abusive men control women. This is more common than people think IMO and you wouldn’t necessarily know about it because everyone assumes (sexistly) that a woman is naturally inclined to see having children as the ultimate achievement of her womanhood. Plenty of people will not admit to what they see as a shameful origin of their children in part because of the above and in part because to acknowledge the circumstances may make the shape of their lives unbearable.

ISaySteadyOn · 02/05/2018 06:37

I agree with that. I think also that because mothering is so fundamental to human society, it becomes either contentious or dismissed as trivial. We could remove the contentious aspect if we could all try to assume that no one is SAHMing or WOHMing at anyone but rather doing what works for them and their family at that time. If we start from this point and help each other how we can from either side, imagine how strong a community there could be.

Original poster
Bumpitybumper · 02/05/2018 06:32

IvyFluids Good point. It is such a difficult landscape to navigate. I entirely see your point about not having to work more than your share of holidays, however from a parent's perspective covering childcare for these times can be extremely difficult and for some I do honestly believe it can be impossible. We need a solution for women (and men) that doesn't ignore this reality otherwise hoards of people (usually women) will be forced to drop out of the workforce.

Parents of young children do normally need more flexibility than a person with no children or older children. I hope this statement isn't too controversial and accept adults with other caring responsibilities are in a similar position.

It is a choice to have children, but it's a choice the majority make and I believe people should be assisted as much as possible during this difficult stage of life just because it's the decent thing to do and has longer term benefits for society. Watching people struggle and doing nothing to assist on the basis that they are in that situation through choice just seems wrong. I know that's not what you're saying but just a general point about the whole 'children are a choice' brigade.

OP posts:
IvyFluids · 02/05/2018 05:58

I think if you asked most childless (not childfree, that is people who don't want children) women they would give up their "flexibilty and time" to have children. You made the conscious decision to have children. I made no decision to not have them. That was made for me. We are all fighting a war but different battles. I know I am fighting to not have people think I am rolling in money and spend my time having brunch and sleeping in. I am fighting to not always have to work holidays because people think not having children means you don't have a family. Women need to stick together regardless of their reproductive status.

mellongoose · 02/05/2018 04:55

My eutopia would be to fit a high paid career around school hours.

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