Does "dropping the ball" work?

6) no one got a single birthday card or present in the whole time

What is it with that one?

I was out of action, as in completely out of action for eight weeks. So if you are thinking of doing this:
My observations were

1. most things were done but not to a high standard and lots of corners were cut
2. nutritional dinners were swapped for weird cocotions but at least the dc were fed
3. dc stepped up several gears to ensure they had all the right things for school
4. dh doesn’t notice mess or dirt in the same way I do, nothing wrong with his eyesight but just different views.
5. we ran out of essentials regularly
6. no one got a single birthday card or present in the whole time
7. nothing was organised beyond what was happening right there and then that day
8. He found the stress of the mental load, with so many things to remember and juggling everything would over load him and he lost it a few times.
9. animals were not walked, rabbits etc not cleaned out
10. he did well :)

they think “equality is sorted”

Yes I see that.

But it goes both ways; as lass says, I didn't pick it up in the first place. Husband was a fully functioning adult when I met him. - lass, you clearly understood more about sexism and shared responsibilities and could recognise that in your husband. Many women have only had half the penny drop (myself included a few years ago) and think there's equality all sorted out or don't have the vocabulary/ deeper understanding as they've not been exposed to the conversations, again as society (the patriarchy) has duped them into thinking it's 'all sorted out.'

I see many women at work perpetuating sexism through their own perpetuation of stereotypes without awareness of those stereotypes. And then complain about men being useless.

Scent that's also my experience.

When Dh and I met we were both young free professionals. There was equal footing. A lot did change when we had a child - 8 years after we met- as it uncovered the way Dh was brought up.

I'm delighted own ds is School age and we are about to have a baby. He wants to do so much for it. He's also noticed that 'there's not enough man teachers' at school though there is a fab male TA in reception. And does now see DH pick up mess and fold clothes.

How does one drop the ball without the children suffering though?

I know plenty of women in their twenties that do all the tidying up and plenty other shitwork. It's just that before children there's not much of it and if you choose to leave it then nobody but you and him are inconvenienced.

When you gave children, you lose opt outs. If you've already accepted on the small scale that women "own" the housework and shitwork then you are screwed when the real work kicks in after children. So many don't understand the importance of the red flags in the early days.

With normal men, if you have become an accidental gatekeeper, which can happen, particularly on a long maternity leave, then dropping the ball does work. I speak from personal experience.

If you've married a misogynist that doesn't work though. He's just gets angry at you for being shit and everyone suffers.

Early in our relationship we divided household stuff equally, if anything dh did slightly more than me.

Then many years later I got pregnant and because it made me so ill I started noticing how everything had stopped being so equal. By then I was doing all the cooking, shopping, clothes washing, most of the cleaning etc. Dh expressed concerns that he wouldn’t know how to do anything with the baby, I could see it was going to be my job.

Then I gave birth, was completely destroyed by the whole process, crash section, sepsis.

I couldn’t sit up unaided, I couldn’t even hold my baby by myself, couldn’t pick her up at all. Dh stepped up and was fantastic, did everything. Then at home he helped with all night wakings for months, did everything in the house, did loads with dd. I had pnd and for over a year he pulled far more weight than I did.

It’s levelled out again now. But it’s kind of worse because it’s like he can’t see all the things I do, and he thinks I’m really lazy.

So dropping the ball definitely worked, but the underlying problem that subconsciously he thinks everything house and child related should be my job will always be with us, although he would be horrified to hear it spelled out.

Women of any age still have to be vigilant about equal stuff in the home - it’s still our responsibility overall

Re the age thing there is a particularly nasty attitude amongst many of the men in their 20s/30s that I notice (I am early 30s) where they think “equality is sorted” so that they can’t possibly be sexist and yet they have a latent expectation that they shouldn’t have to pull their weight or be in charge of household jobs when there is a woman in the vicinity. They have been brought up by parents (or mothers at least) who expect them to do household jobs but society is still sending another message to both young men and women.

So they get very hurt (and can react nastily) if it is implied that they aren’t practising what they preach, and it’s hard to tackle. This comes into sharp focus after children when the whole parental leave/pay gap stuff becomes a reality for more people, and when the number of jobs around the house increases - it’s easier to hide when there are only two of you

no clean crockery

I did this when I first lived with (now) DH. It was pre-kids so less fallout. I liked him and thought the relationship could go the distance, but not as his unpaid housekeeper. I was interested to see how bad things had to get before he noticed jobs needed doing. I stopped washing up, I stopped doing his laundry etc. We had a phase of eating out every week because there was clean crockery and the “no clean boxers” day was a turning point. He got his act together and still pulls his weight. We’re not far off our 25th anniversary.

My DH is a bit of a lazy so and so. I wouldn't ever leave him with everything as the fallout would affect me and DS.

I have though stopped bothering about sorting his stuff out. He was surprised one morning to find he had no clean underwear but quickly found the washing machine.

Desperately trying to ensure DS doesn't end up like it.

Also cultural factors.

A colleague told me her now husband who is around 60 noticed a big difference in attitudes and sexism in this northern city area compared to the area down south that he'd come from - in business and just day to day living. Which I'd agree with.

I didn't pick it up in the first place. Husband was a fully functioning adult when I met him. Our son was our joint responsibility to look after.

There's an age / generational thing and there's an impact from parents in how parents were respected etc. Theres many factors. Dh is 42 this year, his parents are 70. I'm similar as are my parents. My grand parents were born in 1911 ish so there's a big generational spread reaching pre women's vote in only 3 generations.

Dhs family are very religious and focussed on traditional gender roles, including character, who knows more about life, politics etc (men.) Mil is very good at doing herself down. (Utterly lovely but her female socialisation to be a wall butterfly is enormous. Not into makeup etc though). Fil is very well respected in the community and by his sons. - I think that's the other key; all Boys. Fil has no siblings.

Dh is actually quite different to him in practise, totally got stuck into changing nappies etc but I did notice an underlying assumption at times that ultimately he was 'in charge' - despite not actually doing some of the lesser 'menial' jobs like toy tidying - when we had a child which I slowly worked out and pointed out to him as not really him fully participating. He desperately wanted to do night times etc but in reality couldn't cope very well and had much less patience with a very clingy child. That kind of back ground experience impacted him; in his family they seemed to be very pro cry it out. We weren't.

However, as I said, my mother was definitely 'in charge' (even all the pets knew that) so I think sometimes that part rises in me, but I do suffer from female cross examination (which Dh doesn't, I think due to the very masculine upbringing) and have had to get better at asserting myself.

Out of interest, those saying their DH needs to be told to do chores, is this an age thing ie perhaps 40+, as my friends my age (late 20s) have never mentioned this being an issue.

I would say it’s more of a post-children thing.

Also I should add, I don’t think the way your parents did things necessarily has much influence on the way you do things as an adult. My DP’s dad does nothing at home but my DP always regarded this as a generational thing and was incredulous at how little respect he must have for his wife. Neither of us knew how to do anything remotely domestic when we moved in together, but we just googled the various tasks and split them between us, job done! Out of interest, those saying their DH needs to be told to do chores, is this an age thing ie perhaps 40+, as my friends my age (late 20s) have never mentioned this being an issue.

I've found it has to be a mixture of spelling it out and ball dropping, and developing routines. I'm more at home now so he's just not as tuned in. Differences in standards can clash (both ways actually!)

It caused a lot of arguments though as I'm from a very matriarchal family, he's from a very patriarchal family. It's made me realise how progressive my father was! Though I think mum had to spell it all out for him (a bit too much imo).

For example, when my mum wasn't working, my father always washed up and sorted the kitchen. It appears dh's mum did all the house work and cooking while his dad just worked. It actually now annoys me that since fil retired he 'took over the cooking' and mil washes up - but I've noticed at family things therefore he gets the praise and discussion about how it was cooked etc while mil is in the background sometimes producing a cake. He puts his feet up after dinner as he always did while she flaps around clearing up. He's apparently never touched a dishwasher in his life. I may be being a bit harsh but little subtle things like that have been bugging me.

My husband was made redundant six months ago - it was a complete surprise. I was working part-time but upped it to full time but was still doing the majority of the kids' stuff (though he took on the school runs). That continued for a few months until I finally, absolutely lost it at him. I had supported him and helped him through his new job search for so long (which was really stressful as I only earn a third of his salary) plus was continuing to do all the house- stuff on top of full time and work!

He has completely taken on everything. Everything. Kids' lunches, kids' therapy, all the school runs, been scouting out after school activities and has honestly been 50/50 with me as we plan for handling everything as we both work full time from next week (he has a new job). So it's been two months of DH doing all the 'wifework'.

I didn't drop the ball as such but I think he realised how close I was to the edge. I was so so angry. Of course I shouldn't have had to do it, but that's how it went. Let's see if it lasts.

What is the issue with leaving the dishes to the next morning though?

I think it can do but if done in a spirit of 'that'll teach you' it's not ideal. How else can it feel though.

I don't regard doing the dishwasher in the morning as a bad thing though. There is stuff that must be done and there are different standards - the difference is quite key.

Yes, my DH is a committed feminist but he is rebelling against a very traditional (read: sexist) family and when we had DD some of those observed behaviours from his own father threatened to creep in (ie - leaving me to deal with baby related stuff and assuming I was 'better' at it than he was).

I absolutely let him work things out for himself - like the first time he took DD out by himself to let me catch up on sleep he forgot several key things like wipes and a change of clothes. So she pooped everywhere and he had to figure out how to deal with it. It was stressful, yes, but after that he always knew exactly what needed to go in the change bag and where the nearest baby change facilities were!

Of course it's not that easy and is an ongoing process but it does work if you have a partner who respects you and genuinely considers marriage and parenthood to be a partnership.

Agree 100% with Luglio.

They are adults - if they cannot perform basic adult tasks without being prompted, they do not deserve to be in an adult relationship.

I also feel very strongly about this as my dad didn't/doesn't do anything around the house and it has always been a source of tension - even more so now that my mum is not in good health but feels that she cannot let him do anything without creating more work for her.