Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

MNHQ Deletion Policy

935 replies

TheUterati · 30/04/2018 17:03

Earlier today the Trans Park Run thread was deleted in its entirety because SOME posts alleging cheating were deemed to be 'not in the spirit' of MN.

We have a thread about that running.

I have just been deleted on the Heather Peto thread for posting this:

"Bless..."

A post intended to be mildly dismissive.

That was deleted for breaking talk guidelines.

Give me a fucking break MNHQ.

"Bless..." gets a deletion!??!?!

TRA really have got you on a short chain, haven't they?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
vaginafetishist · 01/05/2018 14:46

So what about Rachel?

vaginafetishist · 01/05/2018 14:45

It's a very good point. Why is gender different?

Pratchet · 01/05/2018 14:45

Yes vg it is

MrPan · 01/05/2018 14:45

Outside of the twisted world of the TRAs, there is another trans-world where people simply wish to conduct themselves as best as they can. eg the two people I know are no threat whatsoever to women and girls. I know that isn't the winning argument, at all, but it gives a cue-in to how anyone should address them.
The obv shift is where women's rights/sensitivities/spaces are threatened by the be-penised/unreconsituted/entilted male who take that which wasn't designed for them. For me at least there would be no respect there.

Just a universal refusal to engage with using a preferred pronoun in any circs with any trans person isn't the civilised way to react. No matter how much biological sanity is important to one. That doesn't mean being sucked into " it's our right to compromise your rights".

vaginafetishist · 01/05/2018 14:45

It is not 'non costly' to use preferred pronouns. It's a form of coercion and the thin end of the wedge.

gendercritter · 01/05/2018 14:44

It's a good point. In her documentary it's plain she considers it rude and hurtful if you call her white.

Original poster
TheUterati · 01/05/2018 14:34

Is it polite and non-costly to refer to Rachel Dolezal as a African American Woman? Would someone who refuses to do so be a massive twat for not recognising the life-changing commitment she has made to her identity as a African American woman and the very real price she has paid?

OP posts:
LangCleg · 01/05/2018 14:33

Deleting it was an own-goal. Troll starts thread to provoke screenshot. Deluded right-winger takes bait. Then loads of other posters join to say "not in our names." Thread is deleted. TRAs now control the narrative because all they show in a screen grab is the first two posts.

@MNHQ - please take notice of this. It's not just us being controlled. It's you.

Original poster
TheUterati · 01/05/2018 14:32

Pan - many here disagree and the fact of that disagreement and our resolve to use language correctly, on the grounds that to do otherwise is promulgating a lie that is at bottom harmful to women and girls, needs to be respected. Where there are deletions for 'deliberate misgendering' that is not being respected and we are being told that the feelings of these individuals are more important firstly than the truth, and secondly than the feelings of women and girls who have a visceral objection to referring to males as females on the grounds that to do so causes both political and material harm.

OP posts:
MrPan · 01/05/2018 14:28

I'd think it's polite and non-costly to use a preferred pronoun. I know 2 trans people, one of each-way transition.

I'd be a massive twat IF I were to fail to recognise the efforts they have gone to in order to act on their dysphoria.

RefuseToDenounceBiology · 01/05/2018 14:24

I will deliberately refer to people, male or female, with words that correctly denote their sex. That is 'being deliberately accurate' not 'deliberately misgendering'.

Hear! hear!

Original poster
TheUterati · 01/05/2018 14:16

In the context of 'trans', 'deliberate misgendering' is a nonsense.

I will deliberately refer to people, male or female, with words that correctly denote their sex. That is 'being deliberately accurate' not 'deliberately misgendering'. It has got nothing to do with gender for a start - male, female, he, she, etc are to do with sex not gender.

The only instance of misgendering I can thing of is if I say:

Le chaise, instead of la chaise

And it is deliberate if I know that chaise takes the feminine.

And it is designed to humiliate and cause hurt if I am on some Francophobic mission and have decided that deliberately misgendering French is the way to go. Weird, and slightly unhinged, but not impossible.

OP posts:
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 01/05/2018 14:10

Red Flowers

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 01/05/2018 14:05

Deliberate misgendering is one thing but who gets to decide when it's deliberate? You're allowing a minority to decide which people (women mostly on here) are allowed to speak. If that minority has an agenda then one side of a debate is silenced. I don't think that's ok when pronouns are neutral terms. I have friends from other countries who "misgender" me and my kids. It's not offensive.

I agree that there are times I'd use the preferred pronouns to be polite (e.g would be happy to call Miranda Yardley and truscum whatever they'd like and I'd do my honest best, though I can't promise not to randomly call them one of the dcs names too as do that a lot...) but if I don't it shouldn't alter my right to free speech. If you see someone as a man it's hard not to use 'he'. It's instinctive (Miranda Hart makes jokes about this as people sometimes think she's a man because of her height) What happened in the speaker's corner assault court case is very worrying.

KittyKlaws · 01/05/2018 14:04

Important points FermatsTheorem

Original poster
TheUterati · 01/05/2018 14:04

@Fermat - yup.

And as has already been observesd a thread with more holes than swiss cheese also provides ammunition for SS and Twitter, along the lines of, that vile TheUterati - see how many posts needed to be deleted? That can be manipulated - the evidence that all I did was state biological truth and say 'bless...' is now gone. They can make up whatever the hell they like. That is part of the plan and MN are enabling this.

OP posts:
KittyKlaws · 01/05/2018 14:03

Glad you all feel you can escape. I see it as an utterly pointless retreat into nothingness

Its not an escape, I'm sorry. You sound so down Red I just want to give you a hug and some cake. Can we help at all?

SunsetBeetch · 01/05/2018 13:58

Exactly @FermatsTheorem

FermatsTheorem · 01/05/2018 13:56

"FYI the now deleted thread about the Day For Freedom protest is now doing the rounds on twitter. Just a screenshot of the first two posts, mind. The ones that could lead people to think mumsnet are in support of white nationalists."

Deleting it was an own-goal. Troll starts thread to provoke screenshot. Deluded right-winger takes bait. Then loads of other posters join to say "not in our names." Thread is deleted. TRAs now control the narrative because all they show in a screen grab is the first two posts.

This is going to happen a lot. There was at least one other thread this morning started with the express intention of generating screenshots, IMO. Fortunately, people twigged immediately and started responding with anodyne "maybe this would be better in Style and Beauty" posts.

SunsetBeetch · 01/05/2018 13:53

twitter.com/christineburns/status/991293263566000128?s=19

(Who is Christine Burns btw?)

MNHQ Deletion Policy
Pratchet · 01/05/2018 13:53

Hi Red. Sorry you've had a filthy time of it. This is temporary.

MipMipMip · 01/05/2018 13:49

@TruScum after what you said earlier who you prefer us on here to refer to you as male or female? My instinct is always to respectfully refer to someone as they present, provided they are respectful back (and I usually carry on doing so if they aren't ). In discussions such as this I refer to the class rather than the individual so would use make for trans women and female for transmen.

I can't find the exact quote but you said something about it maybe being a mistake to allow people to call you she. I am happy to go with whichever you prefer, just let me know.

Sorry that was very garbled, hope you get where I am going.Blush

SunsetBeetch · 01/05/2018 13:49

FYI the now deleted thread about the Day For Freedom protest is now doing the rounds on twitter. Just a screenshot of the first two posts, mind. The ones that could lead people to think mumsnet are in support of white nationalists.

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2018 13:35

Glad you all feel you can escape. I see it as an utterly pointless retreat into nothingness.

Pratchet · 01/05/2018 13:12

Misgendering, my aunt fanny

We aren't the ones misgendering