MNHQ Deletion Policy

There is only one race. The human race. It is composed of males and females for reasons of reproduction.
See! That was simple, but never easy.

I think you have to be PRETTY drunk at trans kool-aid to believe that a man, with different genetics, reproductive structures, body shape, facial appearance, can become a woman, but that a person cannot change race.

Yep. Of the two methods of categorizing people, sex is far more fixed and easy to determine scientifically. Which is not to say that race isn't a real and important thing that has a huge impact on how someone's life turns out, because it is. It's more to say that given that we've generally decided that people who decide that they're not the race they appear to be based purely on their say-so are not generally going to be taken seriously, and that's especially the case when they're attempting to more from a more privileged to a less privileged group, then saying that someone can move from the privileged sex class (man) to the less privileged one (woman) and this must be accepted by everyone despite it being much easier to prove their claims definitively wrong using science is taking the piss more than a bit.

I don't disagree ineed

rufus when I said "you're" I meant 'One' really (if I'd been using proper English) or in this case MNHQ - not you - worded it badly as writing while baby/toddler wrangling (when do they technically become a toddler?..... but I digress).

So, in the case of MN the mods decide and in the case of the recent court case it was the judge. In both cases other people are deciding what another person meant when they used personal pronouns and whether they had malign intent. And if the person who is judge decides they don't like a group of people / their argument they can claim there was malign intent whether or not there really was. It's madness.

The thing is no-one is stopping people who WANT to use preferred pronouns ( Pan ) it's just that some people really believe that biology matters and is very important to them. Why is their belief / desire / freedom to use the English language in a traditional way less important than someone else's desire to get everyone to use a particular pronoun for them? No-one's stopping them from referring to themselves that way.

Honestly, if misgendering becomes a crime we should start a ManFriday type thing where we all claim we have some new non-binary personal pronoun (mine might be bollox) which everyone should use for us or they're committing a hate crime.

How can you deny the reality of transracialism?

Two men in Malaysia, one Chinese, one Malay were switched at birth, hence assigned Malay at birth in the case of the Chinese man, and Chinese at birth in the case of the Malay man:

uk.reuters.com/article/oukoe-uk-malaysia-switch/malaysian-switched-at-birth-wants-to-switch-religion-idUKKLR13560820070203

And race in Malaysia is every bit as important than sex, Malays are legally Muslim (all of them, 100%, forever, unrenouncably), they are subject to positive discrimination policies, etc.

While the assigned-Malay-at-birth man wanted to renounce his transMalay identity and return to his biological Chinese status, the assigned-Chinese-at-birth man was happy to become trans-Chinese - he had a Chinese name, spoke Chinese, passed as Chinese, married a Chinese woman, ate pork, practised Buddhism.

I think you have to be PRETTY drunk at trans kool-aid to believe that a man, with different genetics, reproductive structures, body shape, facial appearance, can become a woman, but that a person cannot change race.

Race is essentially a description of a human grouping with shared culture. While this is linked to certain genetics, these genetics are not concrete in the way that XX vs XY is - outsiders can mix into the group and very quickly become apart of it. Certain races may have people of quite different appearance, reflecting different geographical origins of different parts of the tribe, but this does not negate their identity.

And don't forget that many supposed 'races' are in fact distinguished from each other based on RELIGION. While religion is largely inherited, these religious divides often reflect a past split in a single homogenous race based on war or whatever.

Now if what you are saying is that is offensive for a rich white person to go off and fly to Uganda and claim to suddenly be Bahororo, well then how the bloody hell do you justify rich white men claiming to be women?

There are plenty of British people who feel 'dysphoria' when they go and live in a country where the weather isn't shit, the food is delicious, the beaches beautiful, and people live more relaxed, less pressurised lives.

ha Jux, brilliant idea!

PS I'm right here - isn't it weird to make such musings about a person right in front of them? I mean I think it's weird. But hey ho, no-one's the boss here. Just calling it like i see it. Which is weird.

There have always been people culturally appropriating and trying to pass as another 'race' - eg 'white' people claiming to be Native Americans

Or, more often, mixed race people seeking to "pass as white" in order to benefit from the privileges enjoyed by white people in various societies at various points in history: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(racial_identity)

I don't think any posts should be deleted. Instead, they should be coloured shit brown when one gets, say, 3 reports. The more reports the shittier the colour

This is basically the Reddit downvote process, where lots of people vote that the post is shitty (in line with whatever that means on the specific sub-Reddit) and when it reaches a certain threshold it is then automatically hidden because it's deemed to be utter shite

(I'm not jumping ship to Reddit GC, BTW. I lurk there occasionally, but find the US focus difficult and some of the language used is blunt to the point of obnoxiousness)

Well hey, Bewilder, perhaps transracials need to get campaigning, because folks like me are ignorant on the matter! And perhaps then I'll know enough to convince me it's a thing and that it is indeed rude to mis-race somebody, in which case I will happily stand corrected.

I don't think any posts should be deleted. Instead, they should be coloured shit brown when one gets, say, 3 reports. The more reports the shittier the colour.

I do not think it possible to argue with someone who denies the vast amount of historical evidence of transracial people "passing as white", as well as tribal adoptions, while asserting there is vast amounts of historical evidence for transgenderism, which there is not.
They are quite simply impervious to reason.

Ok Tru, I'll go with male then. What's the betting there'll be a report at some point? Which, to be fair I'd support. When you're talking to someone you use the trying not to use pronouns here salutation they prefer so if someone thinks I'm being rude to you I have no objection to them stating it. In fact you seem lovely so I'm all for people not being rude to you.

transgenderism is a recognised state of being for human with plenty of evidence to back up its very real existence, but transracialism - yeah - that's not

Yes you did rat. 'It's real because .. it's real'. Yeah NO.

"why isn't it rude to "mis-race" Rachel Dolezal but it may be rude to misgender a transperson? Er, because transgenderism is a recognised state of being for human with plenty of evidence to back up its very real existence, but transracialism - yeah - that's not."

How rude. Did you just erase Rachel Dolezal and her lived experience?

"I've had a post deleted for saying "don't be so stupid""

The way to avoid deletion is to say it this way: "Your post makes you look somewhat less than super bright, which I'm sure was not your intention". It means exactly the same thing as "You're stupid if you think that's true" imho but MNHQ feels it's not a PA.

Oh sod off Breitbart

I've never understood the Mumsnet moderation/deletion policy.

On pretty much all of the other forums I go on "Cunt" is the only word that is moderated - auto asterixed out in a lot of cases.

On Mumsnet it's bandied around like a shiny new toy.

Yet perceived slights are jumped on as are "personal attacks" - I've had a post deleted for saying "don't be so stupid" but Passive Aggressive, snidey, sneaky indirect attacks are allowed.....

It's bizarre.

On other forums it's actually quite refreshing to read some of the proper ding dongs with people calling each other lying bastards & all the names under the sun - and very few posts get deleted. If someone persistently pisses you off on other forums you ignore them or tell them to fuck off.

Here, you're stuck with them...

rat

Ok

Not having a good day and (im not saying this is you at all) ive seen to much tweaking of people's posts in the last few days

Its really pissing me off

In real life i have a dreadful temper so I'm very restained on here...believe it or not

Justs reread my post - it does look like I'm saying a blanket rule was suggested; I really didn't mean that. I was just remembering a time when an accidental misgendering was deleted and why i thought that was a good thing. Poorly phrased - sorry.

At no point did i say blanket rule

I didn't say you did! I was simply musing on your post; didn't mean to get your back up

I don't think accurate sexing need be interpreted as a dig.

This is a feminism and women's rights forum. We need to speak accurately about sex without being made to feel like meanies because some people find the reality of sex differences difficult to come to terms with.

Why the fuck are people putting words in my mouth today

At no point did i say blanket rule

I said allowances should be made...thats not a blanket rule its looking at the situation and the poster and making a decision from there

I reported Datun once for misgendering (sorry Datun!) although she did say it was an accident. MNHQ deleted it.

But I was very glad they did because the person she misgendered is on MN and frequently chats very cordially with us all. I didn't want her seeing it and her feeling bullied or whatever, which is why I reported it in the first place.

Even as an accident I think in those circumstances it would have come across as a little dig, and a personal one at that. So I can see why it's hard to have a blanket rule that accidents are exempt.

You're allowing a minority to decide which people (women mostly on here) are allowed to speak.
ineed

I beg your pardon?

Im not allowing anything thank you very much

I have at no point said whether i think deliberate misgendering is good or bad in my post

I think that if MNHQ decides that misgendering is beyond the pale then thats one thing but allowances should be made for accidents

MNHQ have made it clear that deliberate misgendering will result in deletion

They also seem to have decided that accidental misgendering counts as well

I didn't think you were all that rude Pratchet :)