MNHQ Deletion Policy

SupermatchGame
You're basically devaluing the rights of a previously marginalised and oppressed group. Dismissing them as a fiction is like trying to turn back their emancipation by decades. I can't see any government wanting to do that. Not a democratic one anyway.

You're talking about women, right? Unfortunately that is exactly what governments are trying to do.

Deleting posts simply saying "bless" and "yawn" when I have reported posts giving unqualified dangerous medical advice actually telling someone to take a drug that would cause them harm and they still stand. What on earth has happened to mumsnet moderation!

You're basically devaluing the rights of a previously marginalised and oppressed group. Dismissing them as a fiction is like trying to turn back their emancipation by decades. I can't see any government wanting to do that. Not a democratic one anyway.

Does that mean we can be assured that the rights of women will not be devalued? Does that mean that we can be assured that the word 'woman' doesn't become a fiction, no more than whatever someone wants it to mean?

If 'woman' becomes undefined, then 'women's rights' become meaningless. The only right we'll have left is the right to remain silent.

I keep typing and deleting posts to IWillReportAllTransphobicPosts. I can assure you that they are all heeelarious.

However they seem like a very unhappy person with quite a lot going on in their life. Despite their rather questionable approach to equality between the sexes, I would suggest going easy on them if you can bear to.

You're basically devaluing the rights of a^ previously marginalised and oppressed group^.

Oh you mean like women thought we'd gained rights, and people like you think we should give them up?

Are you talking about males?

Nope. Not particularly. Trans people. Trans men and trans women.

Who I choose to have sex with is quite frankly none of your business scrappy

aspects of reality

Is it only you who gets to define reality? Who does? A few hundred people on Mumsnet? (Not talking about self id here). As opposed to who.. the NHS? The Royal College of Psychiatrists? The American Academy of Pediatrics? Parliament? The legal system? The European Court of Human Justice? Stonewall? Whose reality?

In that context I meant that my dd does not have a male body.

If your daughter was born male, she has a male body.

a previously marginalised and oppressed group.

Are you talking about males?

Because as far as I am aware they are born into the oppressor class who extract the labour of females.

I am constantly seeing trans women referred to as ‘male bodied’. Really? My dd is for more womanly than I ever was at her age!

What does this mean? In what way were you less womanly? Please try to avoid obvious sexism when you respond.

Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).

As to this nonsense^ I can think of several purposes for which one cannot legally change their sex. Imagine telling the hospital that you're a woman now so they better get you pregnant. You've brought your own sperm sample.

IWillReportAllTransphobicPosts I'm guessing you'd just as happily have sex with a man and his vagina and a woman and her penis?

was

Datun and anyone else questioning me on my ‘more womanly’

If you look at the context I was referring to trans women being described as ‘male bodied’. In that context I meant that my dd does not have a male body. In fact very few people know she is even trans. A lot of her own friends are jealous of the way she looks. Calling transwomen ‘male bodied’ is offensive.

I am aware of stereotypes and sexism, I wasn’t simply referring to how she looks from the outside.

Sex matters.

Even the most committed trans rights activist insists upon their right to treat the sexes differently, when it suits them.
Even you, IWillReportAllTransphobicPosts need to know the sex (and not the identity of people) sometimes.

Not all identities can or should be claimed by anyone who wants them. Some identities should be rooted in hard fact, not in feelings or beliefs. They should only be used by those who objectively possess the characteristics such identities describe.

Instead of ignoring this hypocrisy, and instead of censoring women for discussing when recognition of their sex matters to them, join in the debate and be part of the solution. Because sex exists, it cannot change and it matters. The law can pretend otherwise, and some people can pretend otherwise, but you cannot make everyone pretend to accept what they know is a lie.

You're basically devaluing the rights of a previously marginalised and oppressed group. Dismissing them as a fiction is like trying to turn back their emancipation by decades. I can't see any government wanting to do that. Not a democratic one anyway.

Posts get deleted not thoughts.

Policing what words people can and can't use and policing which aspects of reality people are not allowed to name or speak about is as good as telling them what they can and can't think.

Self ID and trans are separate things, and it's clear that some really do have an issue with ALL trans, if you notice though MN have been deleting posts that have crossed lines though.

No they are not. Your understanding of what "trans" means is extremely poor. It means any male who claims to be a woman. What is the difference?

Well, we have someone on another thread insisting that trans women need gynecology exams so no, I'm not sure that everyone does understand that a post-transition trans woman is not identical to a person born female. And we have years of TRA propaganda to thank for that.

Another regular says her child informed her that it was possible to get a chromosome transplant. People believe some seriously weird, unscientific things.

thought police

No one is saying that! We can all think what we like. It's what we say and do that matters. Posts get deleted not thoughts.

That's why the GRA has created a legal fiction and requires amending IMO. If it too is getting sex and gender confused.

My dd is for more womanly than I ever was at her age! This kind of disrespect has to stop.

This kind of thing has to stop. It's regressive, deceitful and highly sexist.

Unless someone who has been born male has somehow managed to acquire ovaries, fallopian tubes, a uterus and a vagina, they cannot be, in any way, shape or form, womanly. The word womanly has a very specific meaning which is 'relating to characteristics of being a woman'. The characteristics of being a woman are biological.

Do not, please, perpetuate the idea that the characteristics of being a woman are anything else.

You may not like that IWillReportAllTransphobicPosts. And, of course, I understand why.

But, if this debate is going to change the meaning of words and decide that womanly has nothing to do with an adult human female, then I'm afraid you're going to have to get used to not liking what people say.

Women have been fighting, tooth and nail, for centuries to disabuse society of the idea that there is a certain way to be one, other than biology.

We're not going to stop now.

Cady and others who are able to discuss this subject with respect to both sides I apologise. I know it isn’t everyone.

a trans woman is not of course biologically identical to a non trans woman.

A non trans woman?? Wtaf??

You can change the sex of the hormones circulating in your body.

No you can't. Sex hormones don't have a sex, chromosomes do.

Both women and men produce all sex hormones.