MNHQ Deletion Policy

woah there RefuseToDenounceBiology

Infiltrated is a little strong.

The mods are entitled to their opinions, just as we are to ours. The woman who made IP addresses available was a dangerous fool, but the latest one is just someone desperately virtue signalling with an opinion. That's allowed right?

I think assuming that Mumsnet should amend their recruitment policy to fit our opinions is a bit much.

Swichala

I've been thinking of all the lurkers watching the threads and seeing new posters who couldn't give a toss about feminism, bragging about reporting and the ridiculous number of deletions.

It will have the opposite effect of silencing people and confirm any doubts that TRAs are trying to silence women.

IWillReportAllTransphobicPosts

In that context I meant that my dd does not have a male body. In fact very few people know she is even trans. A lot of her own friends are jealous of the way she looks. Calling transwomen ‘male bodied’ is offensive.

I understand. Believe me. I'm not hard of thinking. Neither am I unkind.

But, through no fault of yours, there is a huge chunk of information missing from your narrative.

You are, quite rightly intent on protecting and supporting your child.

We all get that. We're not monsters.

But the thing you have to remember is what happens to women when they are categorised in any way beyond pure biology.

It's almost always disadvantageous. Sexually available, nurturing, supportive, good at housework, better at multitasking, irrational, illogical, emotional.

It's the very basis of feminism. Deciding that woman mean something other than biology.

You deciding that a male is now female, based on something outside of biology is only perpetuating that. It's damaging to women.

It's also damaging to your child. They can never change sex. And they will never, ever be able to convince everyone they meet.

They are being set up to fail, if they don't fully understand their limitations.

The fact that you think their friends are jealous of them, because of your definition of womanly, means you just fail to understand why women are disadvantaged.

Women should not be jealous of the performance of femininity.

Pushing femininity as the ideal of women, is what holds women back.

Femininity should not have a value attached to it. Unfortunately, it does.

The fact that you are perpetuating this means you don't really understand.

I'd be interested to know what you think are the characteristics of the word 'womanly'. Have you ever asked yourself?

I would appreciate an answer to my earlier question about what user information moderators currently have access to, @MNHQ. And also an answer to the question above about how you intend to handle trans activists bullying some of your users.

@mnhq @justinemumsnet

The TRA modus operandi is trojan horse.

You have been infiltrated by two who have now both announced themselves publicly. How many more?

Cross post with errol

Im watching supernatural and got distracted by Jenson Ackles

Now THAT is a pretty man

@MNHQ I thought that you did not allow bullying?
This behaviour is making me angrier than ever and more determined to up my activism.
And men cannot become women.

FWIW I have no problem with MNHQ deleting comments they deem to be 'goady' so long as every post deemed 'goady' is deleted ... there's no consistency whatsoever. Is it only on threads concerning trans people that goadiness is not allowed? or is goadiness in general forbidden - and if so why does almost every single thread on MN contain undeleted goady comments?

Biscuits are known to be fairly goady ... will all 'Here have my first ' comments be deleted from now on? What about the 'Netmums is that way ... ---> ' comments? The ODFOD comments? if we're meant to be sticking to rules then the rules need to be consistent no matter who is moderating at the time.

"cognitive bias".

You appear to label any viewpoint that is different from your own (even when it accords with the law) as 'cognitive bias'. That's a really, really bad sign.

Long term lurker of fwr but never posted before, can’t believe some of the deletions, bless?! Posts stating biological facts, 1984 quote feels apt “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”

I think the deletions have been very considered, fair and pragmatic

Deleting posts such as

'Bless'

'Yawn'

And 'rufus who?' (Changed the name )

Is very considered, fair and pragmatic?

Alrighty then

@MNHQ seriously sort it out.

I think the deletions have been very considered, fair and pragmatic.

You would, wouldn't you? That's what's known as "cognitive bias".

It's quite disturbing and offensive to women that the marker of "womanly" amounts to making friends jealous for being pretty.

And how on earth is any woman "more womanly" then another without resorting to bullshit stereotypes?

I think the deletions have been very considered, fair and pragmatic

Even the 'bless' and 'yawn'? Thank goodness no-one dropped a .

@MNHQ, I just received a rather odd personal message from a commenter whose name I don't recognize. Can you clarify who has access to our private messages and exactly what information about users moderators still have access to?

LangCleg ... it seems to me that there have been some deletions today that are alarmingly autocratic. If deletions are being made not solely on the basis of content but also on the basis of how much external ire they attract, could I reiterate the suggestion for training in managing coercive control?

I think the deletions have been very considered, fair and pragmatic.

Is your repeated suggestion, again and again, that Mumsnet employees undergo training of your choosing in itself coercive? Might some people experience it as coercive? Are you aware of what training they may have had?

Deleting anything that someone complains about is not a very sophisticated way of handling moderation, especially if the fact that your site is currently under attack by a specific group of activists and you are very well aware of that is taken into account. There also seems to be a substantial difference in what gets deleted based on which moderator handles it, and that's also likely to lead to confusion and erode goodwill from the userbase.

Something is going wrong.

And I am not being partisan when I say that I think Mumsnet would do well to invest in some specific training for when the problems moderating a community come from outside the community. I think the gender critical posts others find to be transphobic should be allowed to stand but I also think the pro-TRA ones that others find to be sexist/misogynist should be allowed to stand - within the usual reasonableness test, of course.

But you can't apply different standards of reasonableness because you encounter more hostility or intolerance for speech and opinion from one side than another.

Can't believe RefuseToDenounceBiology's post was deleted. Basic biology now gets deleted? It wasn't transphobic, it wasn't goady, it wasn't about any particular transwoman

Sort it out, HQ

100% this. What's going on, have we been invaded by goady fuckers AND is there a TRA plant modding the board? It's absolutely unacceptable here today. Fucking 'bless'!!!

I'd be extremely pissed off if someone said someone who is biologically male is more 'womanly' than I am. It's akin to a white person claiming to be more black than a black person.

Iwill what exactly is it that makes your daughter a woman, and more specifically 'more womanly' than you?

Can you give a definition of woman for us?

This is just so disturbing. We are losing our last sanctuary due to the fact that some do not recognise science and biology. To the poster with a trans daughter I feel for you I really do, I cannot imagine what that was like for your family but its not just about you, or your child.... Do you not see that? Do you think it's okay that we have to change our language, so as not to offend trans women? Or do you agree that women should be punched or attacked for questioning? Do you know about the wider implications for women and girls??

it seems to me that there have been some deletions today that are alarmingly autocratic. If deletions are being made not solely on the basis of content but also on the basis of how much external ire they attract, could I reiterate the suggestion for training in managing coercive control?

Agreed. Deleting anything that someone complains about is not a very sophisticated way of handling moderation, especially if the fact that your site is currently under attack by a specific group of activists and you are very well aware of that is taken into account. There also seems to be a substantial difference in what gets deleted based on which moderator handles it, and that's also likely to lead to confusion and erode goodwill from the userbase.

Ewww to the 'friends being jealous' bollocks. Such a high opinion of women

I just went out for a walk with the dog and all hell broke loose