MNHQ Deletion Policy

You're the wrong kind of trans person, Tru.

Poula: the law actually enshrines the fact that it's people pretending to be the oppisite sex. It doesn't say they are the opposite sex. It gives them the right to be treated under the law as if they were the opposite sex. It gives legal standing to the pretence. That's all it does.

That sentence alone could be seen by many people as openly transphobic. Could it not?

Only the hard of thinking ones. I have no animosity towards this subset of the male class as a whole. But I do not and will not believe they are women. It's as simple as that.

I thought WTGLWGH would eventually be used to silence women again. It’s a noble idea but when you are up against this amount of hatred, bile and rage, it’s never going to work.

We’ve already seen what damage being ’polite’ has caused. I’m not suggesting we start abusing everyone at will, but why the hell shouldn’t you be allowed to speak verifiable, biological truth, just because it may hurt someone’s feelings?

Fuck that.

"The sentance was finished off by saying “your dd will never be a woman”

Dictionaries say one has to be female to be a woman. And they also say that Female means Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

Draw your own conclusions, since you can't stand others voicing them.

Those who have had total surgery, no longer have one? Can you not see that saying they're still a bloke is transphobic?

Nah, nah, no you don't!

We know where this one leads to the 'only a true transwoman' fallacy, and the 'ergh yuk! so are you going to check everyone's genitals now?' fallacy..

Iwill

You are looking for insults.

Sex is immutable. There is no insult for you or your child in stating that fact. I wish you both every happiness. But no amount of bullying will compel me to tell lies to facilitate your beliefs. You are entitled to have them, but you are not entitled to make me believe them

Everyone must stay!!!

Get angry. Get deleted.

Make them follow this thought control through if that's what's needed.
The deletions themselves are speaking volumes about what is happening.

You can't make people respect you

and I think this is at the heart of a lot of the anger from the trans community. as someone said upthread, things like the cotton ceiling show the difficulty trans people can face finding sexual partners, and is just one example of the fact that while people try to be accepting and understanding, they also generally don't believe that trans individuals have changed sex.

You've tried to change your reality and most people aren't buying it. I can see how that might make people angry. it's a good reason to be very honest with people considering transition.

Also I hate to say I told you so re TGLWGH, but it was pretty obvious there that some at HQ were delighted with it precisely because it involved women policing themselves and approaching this issue from an apologetic, oh if you wouldn't mind awfully if we spoke just a little, if it's not too much trouble, we promise to immediately clamp down on any women who seems like she might be getting a bit uppity perspective. Which whatever else it may be most certainly isn't feminist.

It's not transphobic. No one is irrationally afraid, or has an irrational intense dislike. It's just a biological truth. Even if we don't say it, it's true. It will be true if no one ever says it, or if you hail everyone who says it. We can't stop it being true. No one can.

BabyItsAWildWorld
Never in over 10years have i seen MN moderated like this.

So what's changed?
Why are we now expected to be nice all of a sudden?

We know why.
We've upset some men.

Fuck This Shit.
It's fucking unreal.
An actual dystopian nightmare where men pretending to be women get to control and silence actual women in every domain.

Maybe you have upset some men, quite a lot of trans people and a fair number of women?
The law and most of the medical profession disagree that trans women are "men pretending to be women". That sentence alone could be seen by many people as openly transphobic. Could it not?

Absolutely. Nursey nailed it in Black Adder:

Cady what do you say then to someone like Miranda Yardley who makes it a point of political principle to be prepared to say "Yes, I had such severe dysphoria I had my penis removed. Yes, I am still male."

(I love Miranda, btw.)

Just a little snippet from Rowan - we need more free speech - if we want a robust society, we need more robust dialogue, and that must include the right to insult or offend.

And: The freedom to be inoffensive is no freedom at all

SO I think WTGLWGH has lost it's appeal for me.

what should be a longer term project to pause and slowly rewind a creeping culture of censoriousness. It is a small skirmish in the battle to deal with what Sir Salman Rushdie refers to as the Outrage Industry: self-appointed arbiters of the public good, encouraging media-stoked outrage, to which the police feel under terrible pressure to react.

Got a penis? Not a women. Go on, delete me, for stating biological facts

Biologically correct. Shouldn't be deleted.
Those who have had total surgery, no longer have one? Can you not see that saying they're still a bloke is transphobic? As that's what some were saying earlier.That kind of stuff is going to get deleted.

RedToothBrush - I love your posts, and I hate to see you so triggered by all this shit.

You can't make people respect you.

Even if the law says this person with a penis is a women, I can still say, no I view people with penises as men.

The dude may not like that. but tough shit. I can say it.

Just not on MN anymore apparently.

Yawn.

(I don't learn. Now I'm just being deliberately provocative)

It's been an eye opener of an evening.

But no-one is allowed to go anywhere. We must stand together. They'll get bored eventually.

"I am all for discussion"

Blinking flip, Iwill, do you hear yourself?

"I am all for discussion...but my username indicates that I will dictate the terms of that discussion".

A true lady never raises her voice and always strives to delight the menfolk with her delicate airs!

If that was what I wanted I'd join a forum for discussing Merchant Ivory movies. They'd probably allow snarky jokes too.

The ‘dictionary definition’ you refer to was slightly more than that.

The sentance was finished off by saying “your dd will never be a woman”

A direct attack on my daughter.

Do the rozzers jump out of my phone.

At least someone has made me laugh today!

Therefore fuck TGLWGH

Well, we gave it a shot, didn't we?

I did feel at the time that suffragettes would be turning in their graves - they certainly didn't mince their words.