MNHQ Deletion Policy

You are completely misreading my posts.

I don't think so - you just told us we will continue to be deleted for stating biological facts. That is silencing. Your sheer glee in telling us how we will continue to be deleted is frankly, disturbing. MN has never been a place to silence one side of the debate, it has never been a place that deletes "Bless".

You are totally siding with the activists in posting in support of these deletions.

Doubt it.

Candy - re "That is what transphobic means though. Refusing to accept fully transitioned, full surgery, properly living as a woman for years as female"

That is absolutely, verifiably false.

Again, let's ask a dictionary:

Transfobia = Dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

As you can see, refusing to agree that humans can actually change sex is not transphobia.

I harbor no dislike, prejudice, or any other emotion against trans people. May they all live long, happy, and fulfilling lives, dressing and presenting however they like, with exactly the same rights and opportunities as everyone else.

What I say is that trans women are not female as per the word's dictionary definition, and hence can't be women since Woman = Adult human female, as can be seen in any dictionary.

This is the English language. It is fact. It's reality. It Recognizing it and refusing to engage in the Doublethink and Newspeak you require does not make me transphobic.

My mates? Really not my mates. The activists are harming stuff for everyone - women, and trans people trying to live their lives in peace.

(is that emoji safe?)

Stop being so fucking gleeful that you and your mates are getting our posts deleted.

Yeah, honestly, since I'm on my way out anyway? This is asshole behavior. It's childish, it's spiteful, and it's a perfect example of why so many women have been losing their patience with the TRA side of the argument. And Cady is the least unpleasant of the people on that side of the debate in this thread.

"Debate" does not mean "you only get to speak if you do so in exactly the way that I prefer".

I cannot accept the idea that males like MY and tru who fully transition are transphobic if they do not claim to have become female.

If people are making transphobic comments, they're going to get deleted, that stands to reason which is why I said it will keep happening if people keep doing it.

Calling a male male is not "transphobic". Or we really are down the fucking rabbit hole.

Only some women, evidently. The rest of us will be "keep on being deleted". Stop silencing us. Stop being so fucking gleeful that you and your mates are getting our posts deleted.

You are completely misreading my posts.I really don't want things shut down. If people are making transphobic comments, they're going to get deleted, that stands to reason which is why I said it will keep happening if people keep doing it.
My mates? Really not my mates. The activists are harming stuff for everyone - women, and trans people trying to live their lives in peace.

never said it was. I like the fact everyone gets a voice on here. All sides get the chance to be listened to.

Except women who don't believe you can change sex?

Exactly silvery

I'd love to stop talking about men, whether trans identified or not, and focus on furthering women's rights and liberation.

How am I an authoritarian?

I'll tell you how. By saying this statement here - If you can't see that,you're going to keep on getting deleted.

That is authoritarian. "You will believe this, that men can be women, and you can't say otherwise, or you will be deleted". Authoritarian. Telling us what we must believe and accept.

So yeah, anyway - if the new official policy is that women are going to be deleted for using clear terms such as "male" and that HQ is going to give the authoritarians what they want, I'm out. I won't be a party to women being forced to lie, or the gaslighting of women who've already suffered through relationships with abusers who use coercive control techniques. That's neither feminism nor justice.

In terms of alternate venues, Reddit GC is American centric but an influx of Brits might shift that a bit, and they don't scold women for being honest.

Other women saying things that you don't like is not them silencing you, Cady.

I never said it was. I like the fact everyone gets a voice on here. All sides get the chance to be listened to.

Born women are women, and born men are men. And women and girls, as a class, are in need of protective legislation because of male violence. This is a well-known fact. So - is this post an example of dangerous subversive and transphobic behaviour by a woman, that must be deleted by moderators?

Most of us here are just seeking women and girls' safety, security, privacy and dignity.

We don't care a damn how men choose to present themselves, so long as they do not try to threaten or silence us women, or invade the spaces where we expect privacy, safety and choice, free of penises.

Is that too much to ask? Really?

it's strange for me to be on this side of the debate as I'm usually firmly on the other!

I have no idea what that means. expl?

I've been here years too. I also want to discuss. I want to be able to talk and not be silenced.

No you don't - you've just stated we will keep on being deleted.

Women need to be heard.

Only some women, evidently. The rest of us will be "keep on being deleted".

Stop silencing us. Stop being so fucking gleeful that you and your mates are getting our posts deleted.

@KateMumsnet - look how your last comment has buoyed the confidence of an authoritarian - (is that what we want?):

If you can't see that,you're going to keep on getting deleted.

How am I an authoritarian? People were genuinely perplexed and asking what transphobia meant.
Somebody replies, it's obviously not something that's supposed to be answered.
As I said earlier, it's strange for me to be on this side of the debate as I'm usually firmly on the other!

I want to be able to talk and not be silenced.

No one silences people who says the sky is green and moon is made of cheese on MN FWR - the worst that can happen is people will take the piss out of you.

Grow a pair.

Angry please don't go
Red we're all here for you
Tru I'm sorry you're caught up in all this

Interesting to note that once again those who claim to be the protectors of trans rights completely ignore Tru.

I cba to go back and find the poster's name, but I do want to note that they have done and are doing their child a massive disservice. As parents we do our best to equip our child with the tools they need to navigate their world.

We teach them how to be independent adults and that sometimes we just can not get everything we want. We teach them that decent people do not trample all over other people to get what they want. And we also teach them that once they are an adult, it's time for them to advocate for themselves and live their lives without mummy having to go in and explain away their behaviour to the teacher.

Teaching your child that they are the centre of everything, that the world will change to accommodate whatever they want, and lastly this emphasis on being pretty as the most important thing is so incredibly limiting for their development as a capable adult.

If people are putting posts out such as "bless" - it may sound innocuous and inoffensive to bystanders but if aimed at someone it's like you're being belittled or patronised for having a different viewpoint.

The point is that we're being held to a higher standard than AIBU, Chat, the Doghouse etc.

Other women saying things that you don't like is not them silencing you, Cady.

Cosigning all of what Anita said. This is a fools game that you're playing, MNHQ. You're attempting to negotiate with terrorists. How does that usually end?

Look me up - I've been here years, I've posted thousands of posts. I spend far too much time here. Look to your actual users here - the ones who want to discuss this. Stop "accidentally" allowing posts that say "bless" be deleted. Stop allowing your users to be silenced.

I've been here years too. I also want to discuss. I want to be able to talk and not be silenced.
Women need to be heard.
If people are putting posts out such as "bless" - it may sound innocuous and inoffensive to bystanders but if aimed at someone it's like you're being belittled or patronised for having a different viewpoint.

That is what transphobic means though. Refusing to accept fully transitioned, full surgery, properly living as a woman for years as female and denying they exist and carry on saying they're male/a bloke.
If you can't see that,you're going to keep on getting deleted.

No, this is an attempt to shift the Overton window and people here don't have to believe that it's true just because you say so.

(MNHQs moderation policy is a separate issue, since like the legal system they don't actually have the power to override reality or people's perceptions of it.)

"You are being accused of transphobia for allowing the discussion, not the content of the discussion... You should not capitulate and add to the silencing of women on this subject. You are a women's forum predominantly. "

^ This.