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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

XY males should not enter an XX specific category in ANY sport

37 replies

MargeH · 30/04/2018 15:04

....at any level. Ever. That makes it nice and simple.

And as I said in the deleted thread, if that's deemed unfair to some, then tough. I'm five foot one and never made the netball team. Some guys never get laid. Real life sometimes sucks.

Just my view.

OP posts:
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 15:28

Yes - the existence of intersex genetic abnormalities does not prove the existence of trans. (And surely if it did, then they would all be against GRA and be for making the process much tighter and more medicalised, as there would be a test for the 'real' ones? Or at least working towards a test would be the desirable end point....)

TerfinUSA · 30/04/2018 15:27

"But XY females do exists as they were "assigned female at birth" unlike actual women who know were observed as female at birth."

I think you can be an 'assigned female at birth' without being female. Certain genetic conditions will result in XY individuals being assigned female at birth (at least in less developed countries) but only at puberty does it become obvious that they are masculine, and not only male, but a fertile male.

In my opinion it's slightly hard to argue that a human being with fertile sperm and male body who happened to be 'assigned female at birth', is in fact female.

Clearly, though, there are some cases that are not so clear cut....

0phelia · 30/04/2018 15:26

XY intersex females and XY trans women are completely different and it's completely offensive for anyone to say i am an XY female if they aren't intersex.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 30/04/2018 15:26

I agree. I feel a lot of the stuff on here is bordering on transphobic but in the realms of competitive sport the differences between a woman born female and one born male are too large for it to be a fair fight.

TheUterati · 30/04/2018 15:25

Genetic disorder of males:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/Androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/

0phelia · 30/04/2018 15:25

No XY males is totally clear.

I agree XY males should not compete in female categories.

XY intersex females should be treated on a case-by-case basis.

XY trans "women" should compete with men or just not compete.

TerfinUSA · 30/04/2018 15:23

The point being that transgender people will say 'we are not XY males, we are XY females'.

0phelia · 30/04/2018 15:23

Oh I type slowly.

0phelia · 30/04/2018 15:22

There technically are XY females actually.
Androgen insensitivity leads to XY chromosome people developing with female anatomy, secondary female sex characteristics such as breasts etc but usually comes with other abnormalities.
It's classed as intersex. Other conditions are also classed as intersex.
Intersex is not trans.

Trans people need to stop appropriating intersex.

But XY females do exists as they were "assigned female at birth" unlike actual women who yknow were observed as female at birth.

TerfinUSA · 30/04/2018 15:19

Sigh.

There is literally such a thing as an XY female.

ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/swyer-syndrome

Please be better informed.

It's ok to say 'no people with XY chromosomes', but 'no XY males' is tautologous if you actually mean 'no people with XY chromosomes'.

TheUterati · 30/04/2018 15:13

There is no such thing as an XY female.

I understand the OP to be using 'XX' an 'XY' as a proxy for 'women' and 'men' because we are no longer 'allowed' to use those words to refer to actual women and men....

I do not understand the OP to be insisting that we have DNA testing on everyone who enters a sporting event. We know who is a man and who is a woman. Really we do. And in those rare cases that we do not, it is symptomatic of the fact that people are now wont to make all manner of changes to their appearance. It is not symptomatic of any inherent difficulty in distinguishing men from women.

TerfinUSA · 30/04/2018 15:09

What about XY females? I am not quite clear the intent of your title.