Trans Park Run Deletion

Things do tend to get a bit heated when in one thread you have a pregnant women being threatened with murder and wishes for the death of her child being expressed, and in another you have someone having that pointed out to them and handwaving it away in favor of explaining once again why their feelings should matter more than anything else.

But the problem is of course, from my perspective, I am a woman. I can't find a middle ground that involves me pretending I'm not. That's literally the reason I transitioned, because I couldn't pretend anymore. I tried it for decades, and it was destroying my life. And that disparity in is a gap we probably can't cross.

That's fine. You are committed to your delusion as most delusional people are. That is one of the reasons most of the women here want transgender identified people to get proper treatment, rather than affirmation, which simply locks you in to performing your delusions.

I honestly can't believe you can't articulate one aspect of your feeling that you would attribute to being a woman.

@FloraFox Well, I mean I can point to a ton of socalisation and gender role stuff that we all learn to associate with being a woman, some of which is meaingful to me, and some of which isn't. But that's all learnt stuff, and it's not what actually makes someone a woman.

I wish I could explain it, but I can't. The best I can do is flawed analogies, which I'm sure everyone has heard before.

Only after you mentioned it.

I only joined in the initial conversation once it was 300 replies long or something, just before it was deleted, and someone had already linked the article on me way back in the first page.

When I was young I wanted to be a boy because I equated boys with positive things that girls weren't supposed to do.

@cistersofterfy My experience wasn't like that. I'm not masculine and never have been, but neither am I particularly feminine. I was never experimented with clothing or makeup, I never felt like women had it better than men, even then in my childish naivety, it was obvious that women get a raw deal. I'm not drawn to the gender roles that society attaches to women, and I'll join you in tearing those roles down. All I knew was that I was uncomfortable with my male physicality, and that it felt wrong every time I got grouped with the boys instead of the girls.

And that has never gone away. It never will go away. It's a part of my identity. And I look forward to a day where my gender identity is about as relevant as whether I'm left or right handed. But we're not there yet.

I've almost cried with frustration sometimes after reading some amazing posts from women trying to reach a common ground only to be rebuffed with some facile comment about not being able to describe it but always knowing they were women and they are women. How can you find common ground when there only quick sand?

Believe it or not, I genuinely empathise with this frustration. If you don't see me as a woman, of course you're not going to acknowledge me as a woman. And if that is your perspective, the kindest, fairest approach is to find a way of letting me live my life as safely as possible, but without encroaching on the issues of the people you do acknowledge as women, who genuinely do have issues that need attention and effort.

But the problem is of course, from my perspective, I am a woman. I can't find a middle ground that involves me pretending I'm not. That's literally the reason I transitioned, because I couldn't pretend anymore. I tried it for decades, and it was destroying my life. And that disparity in is a gap we probably can't cross.

Anyway, things are starting to get a bit heated, so I'll take a step back.

I feel(z) that the answer lies in more open sharing and finding of common ground but that seems to be the opposite of what's happening.

cister I wish that was true and I used to think that too but I have come to believe, as I said in a pp, that TIMs are so invested in maintaining their belief that they are a woman that they can't examine or reflect on what women are telling them in any way that challenges that belief. I've almost cried with frustration sometimes after reading some amazing posts from women trying to reach a common ground only to be rebuffed with some facile comment about not being able to describe it but always knowing they were women and they are women. How can you find common ground when there only quick sand?

cistersofterfy In all the time I have been reading then posting about this, one thing sticks out in my mind. Feminists have said time and time and time again, they have the know how and ability to help trans people fight for their own spaces. Every feminist has said (me included) they would support this and campaign for this. Go out of our way to help trans people gain their own safe spaces too. It's been thrown in our faces time and time again, especially by trans woman because they want our spaces because it's validating to enter a sex segregated womans space.

Do they care how we feel? Do they shite!

Women's rights have been declared to be anti trans, just as women's rights were declared to be anti men in the days of the Suffragists.
There is no common cause between women who want to protect women's rights and males who want to strip women of their rights.

I think it's ironic that trans people don't realise how much they have in common with gender critical feminists. Lots of us have probably been through similar processes about our own identities. We've just chosen a very different solution to the problem.

I feel(z) that the answer lies in more open sharing and finding of common ground but that seems to be the opposite of what's happening.

cister I think that's the thing of it though. We all believe that the feeling of trans is wanting to do things stereotypically associated with the other sex because a lot of us have experienced something similar or can see it in little boys or girls who don't like to do "boy things" or "girl things".

That's why it doesn't ring true when someone says the feeling is can't be described or is like feeling left handed when you are right handed.

cistersofterfy No, I'm angry. I was accused earlier in this thread of (paraphrasing) bubbling with anger. I wasn't then, I am now. Few things in this world annoy me, I'm too damn old to care about most things, this is different. I am now at the point where I see all to well what happens to my daughters and granddaughters if this all goes through. I'll be damned if I'm now going to be the little woman and nod in agreement. Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to read my posts. I care about Dax and her baby, I don't care about Ada who wants to be able to strut into woman's spaces where my DGD's may well be. Bugger that for a lark!

I'm here because people were literally talking about me in the initial thread.

You thought they were. They said they were not but you continue to say they were.
That is not participating in good faith.

Other events - lots of them - are available to people who want the competition rules to apply.

Park Run is actually pretty unique in its ethos and its ubiquity.

Let's not have a go at Ada because of the other nonsense going on.

When I was young I wanted to be a boy because I equated boys with positive things that girls weren't supposed to do. My preferences were also considered to align more with the stereotypes associated with boys and not girls. I probably would've said that I felt like a boy if (repeatedly) questioned because I didn't really feel like a girl - or what I considered girls were meant to feel like.

Now I'm an adult, I realise that the stereotypes and society were skewiff and not me. I don't know what being a woman feels like and I am one. I just am. I don't suppose I ever felt like a boy either.

It saddens me that we seem to be in trench warfare at the moment.

Ada locate the feeling you have about women participating in a parkrun who don't want males participating in their categories. That will approximate to the feeling spont is articulating.

I honestly can't believe you can't articulate one aspect of your feeling that you would attribute to being a woman. How did you ever figure out you feel like a woman?

people did start talking about the article that parkrun Australia did about me

Only after you mentioned it.

So no, I don't give a shiny shit how you feel. Getit?

No, to be honest, I don't understand. I've never felt like that towards anyone...

People were not talking about you in the initial thread, the OP of that thread came on this thread to say so.

They were. I wasn't the person that OP was talking about, but people did start talking about the article that parkrun Australia did about me.

A better analogy to your situation is to say that I feel like I'm left handed even though my dominant and more dextrous hand is my right hand. But what would those feelings be that make me feel like I'm left handed? I can't think of anything.

Maybe that is a better analogy. And just like I can't explain how or why I am left handed in that analogy despite being more proficient with my right hand, I can't explain why I'm a woman, especially in light of the fact that my gender identity doesn't align with my physicality. But my lack of ability to explain it or understand it doesn't change who I am. The fact that it's out of alignment with my body doesn't change who I am.

@AdaRuns I have never sworn on MN, I've never even come close but you know what? I don't give a shite what you think. There is a pregnant woman receiving death threats and people hoping her baby is stillborn. They are vile wicked TRA who follow Shon Faye on Twitter. So no, I don't give a shiny shit how you feel. Getit?

People were not talking about you in the initial thread, the OP of that thread came on this thread to say so.

@spontaneousgiventime I think that's a bit unfair. I'm here because people were literally talking about me in the initial thread. All I did initially was talk about parkrun and times to clarify things in that space. Then people started asking questions about larger issues of being trans. Every detailed length response I've made about my experience as a trans person has been in response to a direct question from someone.

I'm trying to participate in good faith, and I feel like you're portraying my intentions unfairly. I'm happy to simply avoid the larger discussion of trans identity and stick to parkrun if that's what people prefer.

It's easy to describe how a person knows they are right or left handed - it's the dominant hand that they use more skilfully than the other hand. I know I am right handed because that is that hand that dominates for fine motor skills like writing. My DM was left handed and my DD is ambidextrous. We clearly know the difference between us in this respect.

A better analogy to your situation is to say that I feel like I'm left handed even though my dominant and more dextrous hand is my right hand. But what would those feelings be that make me feel like I'm left handed? I can't think of anything.

That doesn't help with explaining what it is about being a woman that you feel you are and how you have identified that feeling as being "I'm a woman".

What if I said I felt like I was made of glass (this used to be a thing)? I might say I feel I might shatter if something strikes me hard or I feel that people can see through me. At least there I am explaining to you the association I think I have with glass. But you can't give any explanation of the association you think you have with being a woman. Either that or you have an idea of it but you don't want to share it because you know we won't like it.

When a trans woman appears on MN we are faced with walls of text of how they feel like a woman, can't explain what a woman feels like. Posts a tale of woe or becomes lead violinist for the Royal Philharmonic.

Then...

Life is wonderful, I'm my true authentic self (baring in mind they have no idea what a woman feels like). Relationships are wonderful, life is amazing.

Then...

You read a trans forum, any trans forum and there is wall to wall text of how difficult life is, how they wish they weren't trans, the world hates them, they can't get x £1000 from the NHS, family have abandoned them and on and on and on.

The bottom line is.... Trans people come to MN to tell us how wonderful they are and we should accept them and get back into the kitchen and make jam.

Why can't I be left handed?

You can. All it takes is practice. You can even be ambidextrous with practice. I started life favoring my left hand but i am ambidextrous because I practiced using my right.