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Original poster

Trans Park Run Deletion

991 replies

TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:25

Poorly played, MN, very poorly played.

The perspective that when male athletes identify as female athletes and on the basis of that are eligible to compete against women, they are cheating is an absolutely valid one that is deserving of discussion.

Points in its favour are:

  1. The context of cheating in sports as a whole - those self-harming activities that athletes willingly participate in to give themselves a competitive edge.
  2. The evidence that mediocre male athletes who identify as female manage to then carve out glittering careers where those would not be available to them had they continued to compete as males.

It is an absolutely valid perspective.

Accusations of cheating against specific individuals may well be against talk guidelines, in the absence of supporting evidence, but those individual posts can be deleted and a friendly warning from MNHQ posted on the thread.

Males identifying as females and competing in female sports is a key issue in GRA, whether it occurs at the 'social, fun' end of things or at at Olympic level. To silence this debate is an appallingly heavy-handed.

OP posts:
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Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 12:44

I agree with theuterati

posts referring to 'cheating' should have been removed and a warning given if necessary

Original poster
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:44

Auntie - hardly a reason to delete an entire thread though? Over a conceptual difference over the applicability of 'cheating' to different running events?

OP posts:
AuntieStella · 30/04/2018 12:42

It's possibly also because if the recent spat between Parkrun and Runners World about whether the concept of cheating can apply to Parkrun at all, because it is a run not a race. The upshot in the running community was a consensus that it doesn't.

So threads to discuss cheating in athletics are probably better off centred on competitive sport, not an inclusive, not-for-profit, mass participation, non-competitive, community based event.

Original poster
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:41

Lang - it was taken down due to accusations of cheating, not singling out an individual (who is anonymous and unnamed and even the poster who pitched up claiming to be that person wasn't that person according to the OP).

OP posts:
DidoAndHerLament · 30/04/2018 12:40

Spot on Uterati. Cheating is synonymous with dishonesty and it's fundamentally dishonest for a man to compete in women's sports.

Original poster
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:39

Cady - taking down the thread, when other measures could have been taken, IS an attempt to silence debate.

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changeypants · 30/04/2018 12:39

person with physical advantages of male anatomy competes as woman in parkrun

women discuss why they, on the whole, find this is unfair, but, on the whole, agree parkrun should not have to take steps to do anything about this, it is more a matter of trust, honour and princple. whether or not the individual meant to cheat or not is almost irrelevant as the issue spoke of a wider problem.

it is the women, apparently, who are not "in the spirit" here. not the movement which suggests that gender identity is more important in every single conceivable situation than the biological reality of women.

LangCleg · 30/04/2018 12:39

Perhaps it was because the thread was about one particular person who isn't a public figure?

I thought the thread was useful though and the topic of unfair advantage in sport is an absolute fundamental issue within the push for self-ID.

Original poster
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:38

Cady - take down the posts then. Easy.

Just as racist posts or disablist posts or homophobic posts can be taken down without nuking the entire thread.

Easy.

OP posts:
CadyHeron · 30/04/2018 12:38

Silencing debate on this issue is collusion.

Nobody's silencing debate on the issue of men in women's competitions.
Start one if you wish. It's got nothing to do with parkrun though.

Original poster
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:37

I repeat: unfounded and malicious accusations of cheating against specific individuals or entire groups of people, without supportign evidence, deserve to be taken down.

Those posts can be taken down individually. The posters can be warned. A friendly MNHQ message can be posted on the thread.

BUT TO TAKE DOWN AN ENTIRE THREAD ON A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE??? THAT is silencing. THAT is collusion. THAT is pinning your colours to the mast.

What is the ACTUAL reason @MNHQ?

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CadyHeron · 30/04/2018 12:36

I'd hazard a guess that it got swiftly deleted after the transphobic remarks made at the end had something to do with it.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 30/04/2018 12:33

Males identifying as females and competing in female sports is a key issue in GRA, whether it occurs at the 'social, fun' end of things or at at Olympic level.

Exactly. Being fair about this is just as important at grassroots level as it is in the Olympics. Otherwise where do you stop?

YouStacey · 30/04/2018 12:32

Deletion message - Message from MNHQ: While we can see there's been some interesting discussion but we think that accusations of 'cheating' aren't really in the spirit - and so we're taking this thread down.

BeUpStanding · 30/04/2018 12:30

Why was the thread deleted?

Original poster
TheUterati · 30/04/2018 12:26

Silencing debate on this issue is collusion.

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