Trans Park Run Deletion

The wider issue of the impact of self-id and women's distance running was raised with regards to the recent Boston Marathon.

Link here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3219506-Boston-Marathon-2nd-version
(the reason this is titled '2nd version' is that the first thread was removed)

I'm not sure they could have a category for 'N' or at least not without abolishing the%ages (as they could not be produced AFAIK, or does anyone know better?)

So if the results page is to be altered - what would the new one look like ideally?

Placemats to read when I have time

*I am disappointed that HQ pilled the thread, I think that anyone born male should not be competing in women’s categories and i think we need to have these conversations!

The erasure of women in sport is just as insidious at grassroots level as it is in the professional arena, grassroots sport is important, it can help women make friendships, develop confidence, and keep fit and well physically and mentally, and I think allowing trans identified males to compete as a women undermines women’s sport as a whole.*

This in spades.

Parkrun is not a race

But to be fair, most actual ‘races’ are open to men and women of all ages and abilities. Some aren’t - but most are.

Parkrun publishes the results from each run and includes a number of categories including gender, therefore it is inevitable that people will compare themselves against their peers

Cady I saw the last thread, and we do not know that the runner had "transitioned" or had a GRC. We don't know anything about their legal status. With the move to self ID from a lot of organisations, often anyone can declare themselves as what they like.

If park run is "just for fun" why do they produce these rankings, anyway?

On a wider scale (not in sport) just including transitioned people with their new sex is so problematic for all groups. Having a separate trans category on everything should be the norm, and people should be educated as to why it's important that they use this.

CadyHeron I've always felt that the status quo is probably OK regarding GRC's. But although it was about a relatively trivial issue, that thread convinced me that the right thing to do is get rid of them altogether.

When the law accepts literal untruths fairness becomes impossible.

In the absence of a change in the law, the best we can hope for right now is that transwomen think carefully about the implications of their actions.

Transitioned women are legally women though.

Only those with a GRC. Which is a tiny proportion of males identifying as women.

I do though recognise MNHQ work hard to keep most of the trans threads going in the face of a lot of pressure.

I agree

Or perhaps we could expect transwomen to show some sportsmanship AuntieStella

Transitioned women are legally women though. This is a non competitive race, where everyone is included regardless of sex,age, ability.
Why should they put themselves as a man in something that is not a competitive race?
Someone said about putting assisted on the details instead. OK, there's a solution.
If you're going down that road, the biological women taking drugs that can affect performance need to declare assisted too.
Where does it stop?
It's a hard dilemma.

Or perhaps we could expect transwomen to show some sportsmanship AuntieStella

This. It is a minor part of a much bigger problem. And sorry, but people will call it out.

Thanks a bunch MN for telling women to put up and shut up

I'm not dismissing it as a fun run. I am saying it is a mass participation, non-competitive event with a distinct ethos of inclusivity. Other events - lots of them - are available to people who want the competition rules to apply.

Same. Exactly this.

Or perhaps we could expect transwomen to show some sportsmanship AuntieStella

It's naive and disingenuous to pretend this isn't the case.

Quite.

"Park Run isn't a race, but it does have 'gender position' ranking, and many people who do it will care about their ranking. So this scenario is relevant"

Perhaps the change to lobby for is the cessation of publication of results in their current form. Just send the individual emails, with time and %age (according to registration details as provided).

I'm not dismissing it as a fun run. I am saying it is a mass participation, non-competitive event with a distinct ethos of inclusivity.

Other events - lots of them - are available to people who want the competition rules to apply.

And perhaps a thread about one of those events, ideally with a definitive example (rather than assumption/suspicion) might provide scope for a discussion of what is happening to competitive sport.

The thread was a great example of how transwomen's choices aren't made in a vacuum. Every time they tick that 'F' box, take that door marked 'Women', it's likely that they're pushing out, taking the place of a woman.

It's naive and disingenuous to pretend this isn't the case.

I’ve always thought “not really in the spirit” was a rubbish reason to delete a thread and don’t agree with this thread being deleted.

I do though recognise MNHQ work hard to keep most of the trans threads going in the face of a lot of pressure.

I've said this before but:

Park Run isn't a race, but it does have 'gender position' ranking, and many people who do it will care about their ranking. So this scenario is relevant.

I must say that I'm normally squarely on the side of MNHQ but in this case I think they made a mistake for the reasons laid out by TheUterati

I thought the title read badly.

Sometimes the threads just take a tone that is unpleasant.

It could probably be ok to start a new discussion on exactly the same topic.