Trans Park Run Deletion

Maybe it's used to see whether they are getting a good number of women turning up, given that women are more easily put off sport for all reasons from less leisure time to bigger boobs.

But if it's not competitive why do they need to know sex /gender? What is that information used for ?

People on here saying she's not, you don't speak for everyone. Parkrun stance says it all. It's inclusive.

No one has said Lucy wouldn't be welcome at a Parkrun. No one.

Parkrun themselves have said that they felt sad that she even had to ask,of course she's welcome.
Stands to reason, as,you know, it's for everyone, not competitive.
People on here saying she's not, you don't speak for everyone. Parkrun stance says it all. It's inclusive. If you don't like that fact and want it to be ,there's plenty of other runs that you can compete to your hearts content.

Lucy, although parkrun asked you to state your gender, which I think you did honestly in good faith, according to your understanding, how would you feel about ticking "male" if asked sex?

Would you feel like you'd been cheated of something if your results were ranked in "Men 25-29"?

Oh god the jeering and comments for being a woman running in public.

This. Incidentally I'm personally offended by the use of "cis" and "cisgendered". They imply that biological women accept the feminine gender stereotypes - I wonder, incidentally, if that's why certain people were shocked to find that MNers really don't just discuss prams & makeup?

Most of us aren't remotely interested in limiting ourselves to social stereotypes of femininity. Our bodies make us women. Cis is redundant and insulting.

And why are sports bras so totally useless? Kerthump. Kerthump.

I agree with a lot of what you say Lucy. No one should be afraid of being jeered at when running - it happens ALL the time out on the streets which is one of the reasons why Parkrun is such a great thing. Well done for facing your fears and getting out there.

I also agree that a GRC means little in reality, it doesn't stop discrimination and it doesn't make you biologically female (or male).

What I don't agree with is you ticking a box that says female when you unequivocally say you are male.

Lucy, thanks for your input.

Although having 2 categories, m and f, is what leads to the problem. If there were no catagories or three /four catagories then it would be possible for Lucy to know she was welcome to join in without making women feel pushed out?

Yes. Particularly a 50 something woman red faced sweaty and a bit fat
Or. My dd, 18, beautiful, large of bust. She's actually been followed, or chased by men for "a laugh"

Oh god the jeering and comments for being a woman running in public.

Try being an overweight woman with massive boobs going out for a run to get fit and healthy. Jeering? Yep.

No, it's not 'the problem', thanksforthatamazingpost

'The problem' is that Lucy thinks a woman can have a penis, which is a concept that many actual women find offensive.

Surely you can all agree that it is a sad state of things when someone has to ask for permission to attend a public event because they are scared they are going to be lynched or jeered at for just trying to get fit and healthy

I cant believe you have actually asked this on a site full of women. You clearly have zero insight into most women’s lives.

Nearly every woman reading this has been sexually assaulted or raped or knows someone who has. Most women have been groped or touched up or harassed and then verbally abused or threatened when they object.

Two women a week are murdered by their partners or ex’s.

Most if not all women runners have been jeered at . Many cannot run alone even in the day because they feel unsafe. We are scared in parks unless there are lots of people about.

We are constantly assessing and evaluating our safety as we go about our everyday lives, any time we are vulnerable.

So why dont you try and have a little empathy for our lives, and those of our mothers and daughters?

“Men are worried that men will laugh at them. Women are worried that men will kill them.”

A 10% advantage matters - thank you very much. I didn’t read any further as I have never felt so patronised. I don’t like your undertone of ‘put up and shut up’ (which is a very male characteristic by the way).

All of us, Me, Lucy, the Parkrun people, all of us were brought up never to wonder whether it was ok for women to budge up because budging up is what women do.

That's the problem.

it's a mighty shock for us to meet a bunch of radical feminists who don't accept this.

What @FloraFox said

"It can be competitive though"

Yup, but that's not what Parkrun is really about. And even the 'competitive' know that, not least because of the amount of merciless teasing they let themselves in for.

It would be a shame if they changed the amount of info they provided. But I can't see how they can continue publishing results as they do, if Parkrunners themselves really are unhappy and want the event to change. It would mean that the expectation that it needs to be competitive is the one has won out, and I think that's a shame.

NatLuc You've personalised this issue so much with your anecdata it's pretty hard to respond without being personal.

Your overall point seems to be that you don't think you have a physiological advantage over women but you don't really care. I don't see much empathy from you for the position or views of women. Why do you expect empathy from posters on this board? I don't understand why you feel you want to run this race in the women's category and I don't share your feelings, so no, I am not empathetic. I don't understand why you think you are not a man or what you think it means to be a woman (particularly the relevance of your view that you think you are prettier than a lot of women).

However, I do still regard myself as a woman. A trans woman, but a woman nonetheless.

And therein lies the problem.

If you said you regarded yourself as a transwoman, I doubt anyone here on MN would have a problem.

But many of us have an issue with the whole concept that 'transwomen are women', and whilst I feel very sympathetic towards your current situation and wish you every happiness in the future, it would be disingenuous of us to say 'ok, Lucy, that's fine'

Because it's not.

What is wrong with marking yourself as assisted so that women can meaningfully compare themselves to others in their age and sex category, as Parkrun encourages them to do?

Or don't declare your sex?

For example a teen natal girl playing football against a teen trans woman who lets face it will have physical advantages. What does this mean to a teen natal girl who is already socialised that football isn’t for her? Does she accept the transgender girl is just ‘better’ then her? Same with tennis, athletics etc.

Lucy said the exact opposite - that they are at a disadvantage than women. So the girls have an advantage that the trans identifying boys so not have.

Hi Lucy,

I can't agree with everything you said (I don't want to mislead you and yes it can be pretty robust round here - I've ended up in tears before) but I'm very glad that you posted and you are welcome here.

Hi Lucy. Welcome.

What is wrong with marking yourself as assisted so that women can meaningfully compare themselves to others in their age and sex category, as Parkrun encourages them to do?