Trans Park Run Deletion

At least cis is not engineered to upset anyone. TIF and TIM are.

Wow. CIS is most certainly engineered to keep women in their place a a subset rather than as the actual.

Enter under a different name then. Who is going to know?

I use an anonymous email address, and a false name/date of birth/location whenever I can, as I want my online footprint to be as small as possible.

And I sometimes give the wrong gender too, if I don't regard it as relevant.

@FloraFox thank you for messaging back I was actually hoping you would.

What I meant is that without the excess muscle that I had before I had hormonally transitioned I am not sure that the extra advantage from my heart and lunch would have too much effect without the extra muscle to make use of it.

I am certainly not saying it wouldn't. but at that point you can start saying 'well that cis girl is a foot taller than me so she is advantaged that way'. All I am saying is that by transitioning and being on hormones and being as lucky as I have been in the sense that I pass better, I think that the playing field has been levelled somewhat.

I am trying to say that there are a lot of possible advantages one could have.. being 'male' at birth (still am I know I know, but you get what I am trying to say) is not necessarily the most significant now I have transitioned.

I am 5'7" and a UK size 10.

@Lichtie Thank you. :)

@BeUpStanding Well given the prevalent use of deliberately hurtful acronyms I will consider not using Cis when those acronyms disappear. At least cis is not engineered to upset anyone. TIF and TIM are.

And now I am going on that run!!! Otherwise I will be here all night.

I don't believe lots do pass. The idea that they are at risk because there is an M next to their name that no-one likely knows on a list that no-one likely looks at is not plausible. In all likelihood, by NatLuc's own description, most people who saw NatLuc running knew NatLuc was a trans identified male and yet NatLuc seems not to have faced any attacks, as with the trans identified male runner in the original thread.

And I don't think you've ever been to a parkrun if you think there are 'jeering transphobic fuckwits' there.

There's been transphobic comments been made on this thread and the one before it.
So there obviously are some out there, even if hiding behind a screen saying it.
Parkrun is completely lovely and inclusive, our parkrun did one week have some rogue runners jeering at those running slower and laughing which got immediately called out and said it wouldn't be tolerated.
Not a hard jump to think that some who don't like any trans at all could say something if they were that way inclined on seeing them marked out differently.

If trans people are a very small percentage of the population then it won't mess up the stats around participation if Lucy is tagged as f.

If we find that blokes start to use trans as an excuse to have a lark at women's expense, screw up data, win etc that is another question.

But that is not this case. And there is nothing that Lucy can do to prevent that happening other than sacrifice herself , e.g. By being openly trans, which is unreasonable.

Cady - Lucy has already said that they think they don't pass. So I'm not sure how putting an M next to their name is going to make much of a difference. And I don't think you've ever been to a parkrun if you think there are 'jeering transphobic fuckwits' there. By the time those sorts of lowlifes have got out of bed, parkrunners are usually at home, enjoying lesbian cups of tea :)

You said you don't pass especially not when you are running and the 400 runners presumably don't know your name so I don't see the logic in what you're saying.

Lots do "pass." Why potentially put genuine transpeople at risk like that by publicly marking them out?

That’s interesting - but they could collect data to provide information for sponsors but not process/analyse/ publish all the data for runners.

@NatLuc

Just so you're aware, many women on this board, myself included, find the word 'cis' offensive.

Lucy, I disagree with some of the nasty posts, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
If you are ever on a run and you see three 30 somethings jogging along having a natter you're more than welcome to join us. Don't worry, we 'screw with the stats' too by running slower than we can but enjoying the social side.

X posted. How is having M next to your name dangerous? confused

Really? Really, really?! You seriously can't see that say your name is for example Jane Bloggs, look like a woman too, and on the online list you've got an M next to your name?
Nope, nope won't mark you right out as trans and vulnerable to attacks from any jeering transphobic fuckwits.

Park run receive a lot of public money via grants from local councils. They need the data on sex, age etc to prove that they are inclusive. How do they support “this girl can” if they can’t prove that more women are joining in. How do they prove they are getting older people to join in if they don’t ask for age. It’s been proven that dementia can be controlled with exercise and the government has asked GPs to recommend parkrun. The govt will expect stats on ages.

if I was to put myself in to a group of natal woman around the same age and build as myself.. that aside from the lung and heart issue, I think that many of the other factors at this point around physiological advantage are few and far between.

You're putting aside the lungs and heart because it doesn't fit into your argument but those are important factors in performance. I don't know how tall you are or what your build is but I don't believe you don't have an advantage over women runners.

You will view that as competitive if you expect women to provide you with support and empathy, which it seems you do.

you think that I should paint a target on myself by publicly having 'M' plastered next to my full name for all 400 other runners to see? Yes. Logical. I would feel totally safe.

You said you don't pass especially not when you are running and the 400 runners presumably don't know your name so I don't see the logic in what you're saying.

@OrchidInTheSun @ MargeH If I have to tell you why someone called Lucy having M as a gender/sex marker after their full name in an age of social media and tracking people down is dangerous for a trans person I don't know what to tell you..

@Newsofas Umm, it is timed because often the time is a measure or whether one has improved themselves or not, not necessarily to do with their placement amongst others..

Lucy isn’t “stealing space”: she has said she is not a speedy runner. A small number of transwomen who are your average parkrun joggers and categorised as female in the stats aren’t going to disadvantage many or even any women. It would be unethical though were a fast transwoman to “win” and be amongst the fastest in the category for women.

Why on earth would you ever feel unsafe on a Parkrun?

Parkrun could easily have a 'prefer not to say' option, which would then allow the non-competitive runners to opt out of the stats, without having to say why.

X posted. How is having M next to your name dangerous?

Runners shouldn’t have to give their sex or share data on their times in order to run.

Parkrun is as competitive as.you.make it

I agree with cady

Parkrun is not competitive - they're delighted that the average time is now lower, because it means greater inclusion and participation.

Yes it's timed, but the aim is for each runner to know their own time and see if they improve. But it doesn't matter one stuff whether they do or don't. The only awards are annually at each Parkrun, one or two people named as most significant contribution. They usually go, not to the fastest or most improved runners, but to those who encourage, volunteer and run/walk as well.

Now Parkrun can't stop people getting competitive about the results, and I've seen more on this thread than I've ever noticed in RL. But that doesn't mean that Parkrun (still headed by the founder) is a competitive event. There's nothing about the times (other than that it is (gun) timed) and a huge amount about the community.

@OrchidInTheSun SO to be clear, on a publicly posted score roster you think that I should paint a target on myself by publicly having 'M' plastered next to my full name for all 400 other runners to see? Yes. Logical. I would feel totally safe.

So luckily Lucy didn't come first so perhaps we can cross those bridges if we come to them rather than getting very defensive over what should be an inclusive rather than competitive event.

she isn't trying to benefit over anyone in anyway. She isn't using parkrun to abuse women or gain access to women's spaces. She isn't trying to make women feel shit. She's just running. At an event where she is forced to give a binary gender. That's not her fault.