Trans Park Run Deletion

Are you saying the FA is homophobic?! Plenty of happy lesbians in women's football!

Did Nat ever answer my question from earlier?

Every single adult male human I know is bigger than me. I've only met a handful who weren't, and in those cases they were maybe a centimeter or two shorter (and probably still stronger). Expecting me to be a human shield for adult male humans is absurd. Male children I'm protective of as I am of all children, but male adults?

A transitioned individual with drastically lowered testosterone may not be able to compete in any meaningful way, and may not be safe if included in the men's competition. (I say "may" because no doubt it depends on the sport, the hormone levels and other factors as well perhaps.)

This is tantamount to exclusion. It's certainly exclusion from participating in the same meaningful way as everybody else.

By the same reckoning then, allowing male people to compete against female ones is tantamount to exclusion as it female people may (will..realistically) not be able to compete in any meaningful way and may not be safe, if against a male person. Afterall, isn't this the main (if not the only?) reason for sex segregation in sport in the first place? That women would never/very very rarely win against men due to..biology?

I am not surprised that a transgender advocate found a homophobic organization to be transgender friendly.
Transitioning away the Gays and Lesbians is one of the goals of transgender advocacy.

Yes very easy for transgirls to play. Not so sure how trans boys would get on though.

There's reference to the FA in the interview, I linked to earlier:

metro.co.uk/2015/10/21/transgender-woman-on-her-desperate-struggle-with-her-new-identity-and-how-she-was-accepted-by-the-fa-but-not-her-daughter-5376352/

"On the ‘trans-friendly’ FA As Delia says, some bodies deserve credit where it’s due. Namely, the English Football Association, or The FA. Delia worked for the organisation despite, she says, having been told they were ‘homophobic’. Undeterred, she went in and examined the structure of the organisation from a transgender perspective, and found The FA to be the most inclusive of all sports organisations she’d come across – and in fact, the most instrumental in getting transsexuals involved in football. ‘A female to male person wants to do what any other male does – which may include playing football,’ she says. ‘The FA has been the most pro-active and reactive in their inclusion of trans people within football. ‘There are, incredibly, many new transsexuals participating in various levels of football this year.’ Delia believes that if we keep this conversation going, even more trans athletes can step out in the field much sooner. ‘Looking back over the last five and a half years, who would have thought that I would achieve so much after going through so much, that I would help so many, and most importantly, that I would have so much fun?’ she says."

No that’s not true - my dd plays for girls team in a girls league

There is no such thing under FA rules. My dd plays for a team with "ladies" in the title but theoretically boys can trial and join. Her team is exclusively female, but they play in a mixed league. This is under FA rules. Grassroots teams may have their own rules? FA changed the rules on this a year or so ago. Mixed up to 18.

Yay for wpuk 💪🏻💪🏻

WPUK
have 5 demands:
Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act to be allowed to take place and for women’s voices to be heard.
The principle of women-only spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.
A review of how the exemptions in the Equality Act which allow or single sex services or requirements that only a woman can apply for a job (such as in a domestic violence refuge) are being applied in practice.
Government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces.
Government to consult on how self-declaration will impact upon data gathering – such as crime, employment, pay and health statistics – and monitoring of sex-based discrimination such as the gender pay gap.
womansplaceuk.org

It seems worth a mention of the petition to Parliament

"The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted on how to protect women and girls' rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

More details
We call for:

• Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of proposed changes and for women's voices to be heard.

• The government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces, data-gathering, and monitoring of sex-based discrimination.

• The principle of single-sex spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended."

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

SardineReturns Quite! By blindly accepting the GRA update it means welcoming violence into our own ranks by TRA. I dread the women's crime statistics as the violent crime is going to shoot up and little will be added to by biological women.

Wasn't this the basis for Emma Healey's intervention?

If women are beign asked to be "human shields" against GC women then realistically GC women don't go aroud attacking people so they're probably fairly safe!

Although less so from their own side - at speakers corner one of the TRAs is on film fronting up to a woman who is on the same side... Which is interesting to say the least.

If they are planning on winding up groups of men and then getting the women to take the consequences then that's not the same but I don't think they are going after men, on the internet or in real life, they are going after women.

The idea behind it - that women are stronger and better at fighting and generally less vulnerable all round and should therefore be in the front line in front of the TRAs plus of course more expendable - is pretty gross though.

Women are meant to be human shields for gender-nonconfirming males

The call for 'cis allies' was discussed here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228481-Cis-allies-being-asked-to-provide-protection

Women are meant to be human shields for gender-nonconfirming males. I get the impression they expected us to like the idea.

^ This - 100% this.

Well didn't NatLuc spell this out below? That's our role, it would seem, as "natal cis women". And apparently couldn't have predicted the offence it caused!

It seems so, Ereshkigal, rather tragically so.

Women are meant to be human shields for gender-nonconfirming males. I get the impression they expected us to like the idea.

Sorry I meant by men, because of the claims that TIMs face violence from strangers simply for being trans. It seemed linked to 'running as me' when that TIM hadn't had any surgery and when running gear really isn't that different for men and women.

Yes again women should put aside their own meagre protections against violent and harassing males to "protect" validate other males.

'beaten up for being trans'

I don't believe this is done by women / feminists.

Despite the current claims made against Linda Bellos
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237264-Linda-Bellos-arrested-Title-edited-by-MNHQ-to-make-clear-that-she-was-in-fact-interviewed-under-caution

This is a slight derail but probably not worth starting another thread about; it occurred to me yesterday that this whole 'running as me' and 'beaten up for being trans' relies wholly on stereotypes because strangers will only know someone is trans because they're 'dressed as a woman'.

So if being trans is not about stereotypes then surely nobody else would even know someone was trans? It's not because of the way they feel, it's because they're 'dressed as a woman'. I hope that makes sense to someone.

I know Ereshkigal - none of this is surprising. Except to those people who continue to insist that self ID will not impact women.

And yes, precedent is hugely important.

..lay small. So it was seen as a positive gesture rather than a policy that would actually have any real life impact. Of course there was never any publicity: it wasn't widely advertised that any man could now get access to female spaces with the magic words 'I am a woman'.

What that means, is precedent. Think of it when you hear some transactivist say: 'we've had self ID across hundreds of organisations for years and never had a problem'. This was the purpose of that work.

Rowan: re - use of precedent - absolutely.

Transactivists have worked under the radar for years so successfully that most universities, to take one example, have gender self ID policies. These were pushed during the period when most people thought 'trans' meant transexual, and when numbers were thought to be vanishingl