@AnitaLovesVictor - I don't think you are being rude at all?
Male - has a basis in biology, whereas trans woman and woman are (at least in the context to which I am referring) social roles that one adopts. What I mean when I say that I am a woman (though I would like to say that this is simplistic of me to say..) is that it is the role I live in, the fact that I was born... incorrectly.. is irrelevant. Referring to myself as a trans woman is a descriptor. As in, to be crude; 'I am a woman that was born with a penis, It is crap that I was but I am not ashamed of it and I am doing what I can as fast as I can to change that because I appreciate that having it makes it difficult to integrate'.
In no way do I mean to erase natal women, not at all. But many of the struggles that they face, I face and though there are struggles they face that I don't there are equally important struggles that I face that natal women do not. It doesn't HAVE to be about who has it worse because frankly, I think that natal women would win that in spades if you were to stack them up as a list through time. But that should not diminish the current issues that trans women face? In particular, the nasty frothing at the mouth attitude of many on these forums who would see me sectioned if they had any power. Poorly explained? Probably.. Need caffeine and I have 3 pages of messages to read through and catch up on and reply to...
With regards to what you said to Cady though, I think it is important to make a distinction here. Yes, I am biologically male. In the sense that I was born (at least I think I was - though I have always had elevated estrogen) with XY chromosomes, but physiologically I am not male anymore, so telling me (not yourself but others) that I am running with all the advantages of being a man is untrue. As I have said in previous comments I have a larger heart and lungs but I also have less muscle to carry the load of the extra skeletal mass that I have as a result of male puberty, So really, do I have that much if any advantage? Biologically male, physiologically female is what I am trying to say?
@AdaRuns - I finally got to your comment!! :) Thank you for chiming in. And also thank you for being able to talk about your times as a before and after transition as well as how it has affected your peer placement in the rankings! I think that this at the very least assuages what I was saying about HRT affecting athletic ability negatively overall but only to a degree that would plonk in the equivalently graded female rank. If that is not fair I do not know what is?
It should not be a case of 'us and them' because our incidence level is so insignificant.. natal and trans women should be united together not divided and It warms my heart that the overwhelming consensus from within your sporting circles has been that of acceptance.
Thank you also for having a better understanding of things like VO2Max as my research into the effects of hormones on this are limited.
@FlyingBird - It would appear that from the support she has been given that yes - they do regard her as their peer.
@ferntwist - 'Cross-sex hormones might have a minimal effect on body fat but very little.'
Are you for real? Have you ever known a person before and after their transition? I have gone from being fairly ripped to being a twig. A 'slightly heavier than I would like to be twig but less muscle than I have had since I was 14' twig. 9 months (rounding up) was all it took for me to lose most of my muscle that was gained through exercise I did to overcompensate for being trans all the way from puberty through until I was 27 (before last October). Hormones control everything.
@Scabbersley - You are right, simply saying it does not make it true, however, the measured effects of hormones are proof of this and frankly, given many of you place so much faith in science (as I do) I find it alarming that you are cherry picking. The fact that studies have been done that demonstrates that performance decreases but only to a point where they are performing at the equivalent female level show this.
@MargeH - I genuinely do not think that your daughter or granddaughter are going to be disadvantaged by the handful of trans people they MIGHT encounter throughout their lives..
@Newsofas - Hmm, that is an interesting topic.. with regards to the boxing in particular. I actually do not know how I feel about that. I mean.. surely as long as they are in the correct weight class then it would not matter? I mean the whole point of that is to prevent massive behemoths from dominating the smaller fighters? But assuming HRT was in place.. the trans woman could conceivably be on equal footing? I am not sure.. That is my initial thought at least?
@Ihaventgottimeforthis - I understand the point you are making... trans people can be incredibly diverse physically speaking and I would say this is more try for trans women. And I think this is perhaps where most of the understandable resentment comes from? The fact that if ALL trans women are welcome to compete as women then what about your 28 year old trans woman who is not on hormones yet and has peak male hormone levels and physique still and then 'beating' you. I get it, that would be unfair.
Does your opinion become forgiving if however, you are talking about a very average trans woman, around your age who has been on hormones for some time and has the same build as you? Bearing in mind that despite having the same build they are likely several KGs heavier. Does your opinion then shift to 'well she beat me but it was fair all things considered'? Just a genuine question.
@FloraFox - I did not say that you specifically said it makes assumptions of a trans individuals mental state, I meant that it is a loaded slur that was manufactured in the first instance to imply that we are simply delusional. It was not an attack on your personally but the acronym itself.
I was also not referring to this thread with respect to the sexual predator comment. As I stated in my opening message I have lurked MN for some time as it has been a bit of a guilty pleasure and some threads do draw parallels to trans women as being nothing more than predators. But hey... Trans woman take Cyproterone Acetate to control testosterone.. sex offenders are made to take it to control their urges... ergo.. trans women must be predators because they take the same incredibly powerful and toxic drug right? Again, not you specifically am I referring to here, I joined MN and started commenting because I got sick of being bashed by people that have absolutely no right to judge me or get to make the decision as to whether I fit the gender role of 'woman' or not. Yes, I am a trans woman, but trans women live and breath the role of woman. That is an important distinction to make I feel?
I also made it clear several times that I DO think it is important to be able to discriminate (in a sense of fairness) at a professional level. Of course I care about this. It is an incredibly important issue and should be discussed but at an amateur level (not even that really in my case?) I am not 'skewing' anyone else's performance stats by competing as a female especially when I have more than average performance compared to other natal women?
@M0RVEN = And that gives you the right to therefor tar all trans women with the same brush? I only know a handful of natal young woman around my age that engage in care work or volunteering.. What a hollow statement, just as mean-spirited as your last one.
So only natal women can experience sexual assault and harassment because the idea that a man might find a trans person desirable is so far out of the realms of possibility for you and natal women also have a monopoly on either job roles involved with safeguarding children or vulnerable people. Right. Got it.
Also, don't gender stereotype. It is ugly. Plenty of natal women 'bang on about makeup' too.