Trans Park Run Deletion

LangCleg

What she said. Regardless of the medical treatment you have had and your current self identity, the current attitude and approach you are demonstrating in this thread is very typically associated with male privilege.

Feminism is not for females. I can't even.

"I have personally done nothing for feminism or trans rights other than living my life as a compassionate person who does nothing to deliberately upset another person. Maybe I should be more involved, but frankly, I don't think my input, even if it supported your opinion would be welcome."

So you've done nothing but women should do it for you? Refer above point about displaying attitude typically associated with male privilege.

@Datum - I do listen, and I do understand that I am different to natal women, with some different issues and struggles but does that, therefore, mean that the experiences I have, with respect to being trans female are therefore not just 'worth less' but also worthless despite many of them being the same as a natal woman? I do not think so..*

Nor do I. But I hear this a lot. It's a prevalent comment. It's coming from your own feeling that being a woman is 'better'. That there is something inherently more superior. And women making a distinction between you and them is automatically denigrating.

It's not, I assure you. Women aren't judging womanhood and finding you lacking. They are saying it's not apllicable. No judgement at all. (And I realise by reading that it sounds cold. Again, not the intention).

I think it is a lack of understanding from many users on the likes of MN that is the problem for not seeing that there are clear parallels between the issues faced and that instead of dividing and shrinking away from trans issues, natal women should helping to protect us.

The similarities are superficial. They are about the initial perception and only if someone passes.

Women's actual rights are based on their specific biology - not the lack of male biology. But I understand why that doesn't occur to you.

The notion that women have the power to protect whole swathes of men from other men, is risible. And breathtakingly blind.

I do have a problem with the language consistently used, however. I am not a man. I am male.

I don't understand when words changed meaning. Male means:

of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.
"male children"

Which is the same as man. Man and woman aren't social categories. They are a description of potential biological function. Perhaps you mean that if that function is compromised you cease to be of that sex? That can't work - menopause, pre pubescence, infertility?

Perhaps you mean masculine or feminine.

Natluc it's good to have discourse. I wish you well. We disagree, I'm afraid.

rom those posted earlier, it's a name - age - sex thing all in one table all running in no categories (no categories in parkrun itself when you run, you just run/jog/walk/whatevs.)

just click at the arrows on the top and it will sort it for you into categories @CadyHeron

The penis just can't help announcing itself.

Feminism is for females? I thought it was about equality for all regardless of gender?

Equality is not all it's cracked up to be...

One of the most important issues women face is the expectation that they devote their lives to being of service to other people...

“Femin-” comes from the latin root word “femina,” meaning woman. ... Then, in 1837, French philosopher and utopian socialist Charles Fourier coined the word word “féminisme” to mean advocacy of women's rights

@OnTheList - Hello to you too.

See. My issue with the term transsexual is that I cant change my sex. I can change the appearance of my body to more closely approximate that of congruence with my identity, which is why I prefer the term transgender.. I dunno. It is all semantics but the old term just does not sit right with me. If I say 'transgender' I mean someone who is going from one binary to another, if I mean anything else I say non-binary. That is just me though?

@LangCleg - It has been said many times that I type too much. Succinctness is something I need to work on.. lol

@FloraFox - No common cause?

• Agreed that pro athlete discrimination is in place for good reason
• Agrees that the issues natal women face are important but no more so than the issues trans people face

Trying the whole succinct thing. I think that pretty much cuts it?

@OvaHere - Feminism is for females? I thought it was about equality for all regardless of gender?

Nope. Feminism has always been about the liberation of females. As Rufus said the clue is in the name.

Arguing that feminism should be a catch all for everything is straight out of the MRA playbook that seeks to dilute and redirect feminist activism.

"Women's events are a proportionate response to making high level sports inclusive, giving women a chance to win and hopefully encouraging women to take part in sport."

Not just "high level" but all sports activities have girls' events separate from boys, even at schools.

For the reasons you stated. It has nothing to do with women or girls expecting "special treatment" like you claimed downthread.

"@OvaHere - Feminism is for females? I thought it was about equality for all regardless of gender? "

And...this again.

speaks slowly its FEMINISM

you know, for women.

Apropos of nothing, Lisa Muggeridge has a fabulous phrase...

The penis just can't help announcing itself.

NatLuc How rude you are. My examples are what cause women's oppression, our biology. Of course you can't or won't see that.

I'm grown up enough not to need to tell you to "grow up". You've shown your true colours on this thread, please do carry on though, you allow women who are on the fence or trans allies just what their future could be if we don't fight for our rights.

In my experience other women rarely demand that I look after them.

@OvaHere - Feminism is for females? I thought it was about equality for all regardless of gender?

Clues in the name

There is a constant and single issue whether in discussing changes to the GRA, amateur and professional sports, access to safe spaces eg refuges & school loos, AWS, Girl Guides residential trips, SwimEngland policies etc.

Inclusion efforts for some people who are transgender seem to be rarely accompanied with impact studies/consideration for the girls and women who may very well be affected.

Sometimes there are conflicting rights & we need to be able to discuss this.

This was an important part of the talk given by Linda Bellos. The whole speech deserves wider awareness.

Linda Bellos has been interviewed under caution as a result of this speech.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237264-Linda-Bellos-arrested-Title-edited-by-MNHQ-to-make-clear-that-she-was-in-fact-interviewed-under-caution

@spontaneousgiventime - If you had actually read my comment then you would have seen I said that I acknowledge that my issues are not identical. So please do not turn my statement into something it clearly was not. All I said that the issues trans woman do not share with natal women are no less important.

The experiences I was referring to that were the same are the treatment that trans women get as far as being oppressed and mistreaded by men (and mean-spirited women) was the same.

How misogynistic of you to assume that trans women are all about hair flicking and frock wearing. Grow up.

@ICJump - You are right, I have personally done nothing for feminism or trans rights other than living my life as a compassionate person who does nothing to deliberately upset another person. Maybe I should be more involved, but frankly, I don't think my input, even if it supported your opinion would be welcome.

@OvaHere - Feminism is for females? I thought it was about equality for all regardless of gender?

@AngryAttackKittens - My apologies for simply wanting to reply to people and debate my perspective? I guess?

@aaarrrggghhhh - You say you are supportive of trans people and yet you refer to transwomen as men to be served and looked after?

natal women should helping to protect us

I love my husband dearly

But he takes his life in his hands when he tells me what i 'should' do

And as i said..I actually love him

Reminds me of one time when my landlord sent someone over to fix my broken washing machine and out of the blue he very smugly said "I take 2 sugars in my tea". Which I had not offered to make him.

I told him not to forget to remind the people at the cafe up the road if he stopped there on his way out.

I believe trans-identified-male and trans-identified-female were first used on here so that all of the many many different trans identities were easier to 'lump together'. Like, non-binary, gender queer, trans'gender' etc. Also as many people think a transwoman is a transman, and vice versa. So it makes it clearer.

I still use transwoman and transman tbh though, habit I guess. Though I do also try to separate transgender and transsexual. As I think transsexual people should not be under the ridiculous 'transgender umbrella'. And the (admittedly few) transsexual people I know have all started reclaiming transsexual anyway, after seeing whats going on recently.

Welcome NatLuc also

Yep, flora wins.

natal women should helping to protect us.

This must be a wind up.

This is Mumsnet, not YourMumsnet.

And FloraFox wins the thread.

And I should add that constantly pestering other commenters with demands that they phrase things in a way that's more pleasing to you starts to veer into harassment territory if you do it consistently enough.

I do not think my lack of affinity to the issues natal woman face is the issue, I think it is a lack of understanding from many users on the likes of MN that is the problem for not seeing that there are clear parallels between the issues faced and that instead of dividing and shrinking away from trans issues, natal women should helping to protect us.

The staggering fucking cheek of this. This is Mumsnet, not YourMumsnet. We don't lack understanding, we lack compliance and we don't need you telling us that we should be protecting you. You've shown no common cause with women in your posts.

As a general note rather than a specific one - the more words people expend putting their rights and needs ahead of mine, the less likely I am to be willing to compromise. I find lengthy appeals to female socialisation counterproductive. And infuriating.

I should also add, as a general note rather than a specific one, that I equally find lengthy lists of demands indicative of male entitlement.

More words ≠ more persuasive.