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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Impact of Online Harassment/Trolling

161 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/04/2018 12:11

The impact of unrelenting trolling, whether sealioning/concern trolling/flaming discussions/ weaponising the mod reporting system, is a form of coercive control as it disrupts the free flow of women commenting and thinking. I think we do very well here to contain it. Sometimes it helps to educate others by dismantling/exposing the methods and motives of trolls. I get that. However it's a fine line between that and actually enabling harm when individuals are targeted/mobbed, whether directly on the board or by covert malicious reporting.

Verbal abuse is very harmful and many don't understand it and it's insidious effects in detail. Those who have experienced intimate partner and/or family violence in their history tend to have a lower harm threshold than those who don't.

As an illustration, I have altered the effects of verbal abuse in domestic situations to apply to an online environment:

• Your troll/stalker criticises you and makes you doubt yourself. You might start believing that you’re a not good poster or lucky to have a right to comment at all.
• You feel anxious and stressed in your troll’s presence. You worry about how your online harasser might react and this makes you change your behaviour (like agreeing with them more) to avoid arguments with them.
• You feel intimidated and scared of your online harasser when they get angry — their behaviour might be unpredictable or aggressive. It silences you and forces you to stop commenting.
• You’re made to feel guilty and not given the freedom to say the things you want to say. Your online stalker might control you by telling you what you can and can’t believe, say or think. They may also emotionally blackmail you.

I have described Verbal Abuse at length below in the final part of the post, for those who are interested. Patricia Evan’s book - The Verbally Abusive Relationship - is great. There’s chapter or two where she goes through each of the verbal abuse tactics, what it looks like and so on, plus gives rebuttals. If you’re in an intimate partnership I would go on to read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That?” (as TheBewilderness recommended somewhere else)- the bible for all women in relationships. Both authors have YouTubes and are quoted extensively online, so important are their contributions.

My question is do we need more containment e.g. a code word which, when used, means you are being forced to close down/leave? That you are feeling harmed? Do we need to highlight the trolls more where they are swamping a thread and refusing to go away. What about where modding is weaponised?

I still think better informed modding is the key but that is unlikely to occur soon. I tend to leave if feeling "got at" or the unrelenting gas lighting gets too much. There seems to be enough of us collectively to hold the trolls to account at present and we rely on people self caring by taking time out. Maybe everything is fine. I thought I would check by asking the question.

ABOUT VERBAL ABUSE
Verbal abuse creates emotional pain and mental anguish. It is a lie told to you or about you. Generally, verbal abuse defines people, telling them what they are, what they think, their motives, and so forth. ….Usually one person is blaming, accusing, even name calling, and the other is defending and explaining.

Most people targeted by verbal abuse try to explain to the abuser why what they’ve just heard is not true or not okay. They explain themselves because they believe the perpetrator is rational and can hear them and the relationship will then get better. Then they usually hear more verbal abuse, for instance, “You’re too sensitive.” At that point they don’t usually realize that they have just been defined, and, therefore, verbally abused again.

Since the target of verbal abuse is often blamed, ignored, or yelled at, she may have difficulty recognizing just what is going on in the relationship.

Verbal abuse includes withholding, bullying, defaming, defining, trivializing, harassing, diverting, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, countering, lying, berating, taunting, put downs, abuse disguised as a joke, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling and raging.

FRANCE PASSES LAW ON PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE (couldn't find UK stats)
“...the main abuse helpline for women in France received 90,000 calls a year."Of these, 84% concern psychological violence,"..."We have introduced an important measure here, which recognises psychological violence, because it isn't just blows [that hurt] but also words," Nadine Morano, the minister for family affairs, told the lower house of parliament.”

Source: I prefer this old website of hers that has lots of content on it

OP posts:
Pratchet · 30/04/2018 20:56

Pilgrim is a Labour member who is a wpuk speaker. Danielle Moscato took a place in a woman's refuge and told women to suck his dick. Not a nice guy.

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 20:56

She is a labour activist who has spoken at Woman's Place meetings.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:50

Who is pilgrim tucker?

HelenaDove · 30/04/2018 20:39

Danielle Muscato is currently trying to get Pilgrim Tucker kicked off Twitter.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:35

I'm easily led lass

Thats my excuse and I'm bloody sticking with it

LassWiADelicateAir · 30/04/2018 20:30

Personally I think the recipe swaps just look silly on the late night troll/spam threads which merit nothing more than being hidden or ignored.

Why do you even bother replying to them? Do you think the persons who create them have the slightest interest in taking your points on board?

This will no doubt elicit a recipe reply. If anyone has recipes which pre-date the use of granulated or caster sugar and use honey as a sweetener I'd be interested. How does one deal with the lack of bulk that sugar will give to a cake or batter mix?

boatyardblues · 30/04/2018 19:24

I like the recipe swaps because I'm a keen cook, but I'm also happy to have a poetry swap when a thread needs a bit of a lift. If we can promote the work of female poets, so much the better. Smile

Floisme · 30/04/2018 19:00

A bump from me too. I can't recommend this thread enough.

On the question of 'Taking back conTroll' ideas - this is partly inspired by another thread but I find that in real life, nothing gets rid of a male pest faster than a discussion about periods or menopause symptoms.

Although if this afternoon is anything to go by I suppose we might get reported for being exclusionary. Wink

lightthedarkness · 30/04/2018 14:03

Just bumping as a reminder of coercive control techniques - what we're up against.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 30/04/2018 12:30

All the time a troll is typing furiously on a thread here and hitting refresh he isn't doing anything else. I like it when they give long long rambling nonensical answers. Keeps them busy, awakens lurkers to their nonsense.

A bit like how my MIL would always invite in for tea and a chat the political canvassers for the people she didn't want to win the election (but without lurkers).

I wonder how many TRAs there actually are. When they swamped Millwall's phone lines we know that a few people made lots of calls from multiple phones using fake voices. I'm happy to keep them engaged over here if there are only a few.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 30/04/2018 12:17

Thank you woman for all this useful information.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 30/04/2018 11:36

Look at this Prince amongst Men

He tweets lies about MN then blocks anyone who challenges him

twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/990892502428332033

Bowlofbabelfish · 30/04/2018 11:28

Coercive control training for a few of the mods would be good. The pattern of posting is often far more informative than the content of a single post.

I don’t know how modding works (a few people over all the boards or a board or few each?) but mods concentrating on FWR board itself OR issues relating to it on other boards should receive that training.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/04/2018 11:24

Do not name check the troll.

Also this helps avert being accused of personal attack and the ability to RVO.

KittyKlaws · 30/04/2018 11:21

Start the response with a third person account of the mistake: "It is sometimes mistakenly suggested that..." or "Some people wrongly use the straw man argument that..." Do not name check the troll.

I really like that approach.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 11:17

It's probably insulting him again

It happens so often its hard to keep track

(He is lovely Grin)

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 11:07

Not sure if this is you complimenting or insulting your DH...especially after the comment about him being crap at flirting earlier!

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 11:05

Maybe try mixing with mint tea, Ekphrasis? Except I think that's meant to have some impact on hormones too

Really?

That might explain dh then, its virtually all he drinks.

(That and alcohol)

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 11:01

I'd rather not condition my uterus for anything except rejecting sperm! Granted that's what the condoms are for. It does seem to help with cramps, but mine aren't bad anyway so your mileage may vary.

Maybe try mixing with mint tea, Ekphrasis? Except I think that's meant to have some impact on hormones too.

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 11:00

But ribeana is apparently not what it was due to a recipe change! I'm quite distraught and have probably missed out on the stock piling now.

FermatsTheorem · 30/04/2018 11:00

Penny Royal tea is meant to help with period cramps - and is also used as an abortifacient (not a very succesful one, AFAIK).

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:59

Yeah I'm eat my dates and drinking the vile stuff. I'm not sure how I was supposed to measure 2 teaspoons; it looks like the autumn leaf pile we finally got rid of yesterday.

It might help periods but I'm not sure how.

FermatsTheorem · 30/04/2018 10:58

AAK, my (knit-your-own-lentils) yoga teacher during pregnancy said it "conditioned the uterus" (whatever the fuck that means), and was contra-indicated in early pregnancy because it could induce a miscarriage, but was a good idea in late pregnancy because it encouraged braxton-hicks and got you ready for labour. I think it's a quite widely held belief, but whether it has any scientific basis I don't know. (It might do - a lot of herbal remedies do have strong effects - and quite genuine side effects and interactions with prescription drugs. Willow bark tea is effectively very weak aspirin, and St. John's Wort genuinely works as an antidepressant but has quite serious side effects and should always be checked against the prescription drugs you're taking.)

My personal feeling is I'd sooner drink ribena, cold. And rather not drink either!

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 10:56

Yeah it brings on birth angry...apparently

Panic not...you have to be pregnant for it to work that way Smile

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 10:53

Wait, is raspberry tea meant to do something pregnancy related? I just drink it because it tastes good, and is supposed to help minimize cramps.

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