Feminists want to legalise child prostitution

@LangCleg

That may be more or less true but the article that the post is focused on is talking about the US issue and saying that that is somehow encouraging minors getting involved in sex work which is simply not accurate. So I was trying to contextualise that particular case since everyone seemed to be running with the idea that liberal feminists somehow love child abuse.

I do agree more or less with the uk model right now, at the very least I’d feel safer working there than in the US. There are, however, many improvements to be made and still a lot of stigma being perpetrated that does cause only more deaths.

I think "A single batshit person who thinks they are a feminist" would be a better opener. I disagree with a lot of feminists on a lot of things but condoning child prostitution is not something I've encountered once in all my discussions.

Again you're arguing with a straw man. I (and pretty much everyone on this thread) don't want to see women criminalised, we want to see the punters and pimps criminalised.

The problem is that the term prostitution has been used for so long as derogatory slang that it’s too fraught with horrendous connotations to allow for a clear discussion. There are plenty of willing sex workers, there are also trafficked and abused individuals. I also agree with the above comments about calling it child abuse over child prostitution etc, sorry for the slip.

The problem is that I understand it’s awful to see children abused but the answer isn’t to shove a blanket ban on sex work and hope that makes everything fine and dandy, it won’t. What’s needed is aid for those who are either coerced or underage (as it’s not necessarily only young girls that can be forced). Outreach programs / police safe havens etc. not criminalization that takes up police time picking up women who are just trying to work.

NMF

Exactly this already happens, DJ. I have a friend who works in public health and liaises with the police on trafficking in our county (predominantly rural and poor - one of the lowest median wages in the UK). Most trafficking in our area is not women being brought into the country from abroad by people traffickers, it's teenage children being groomed then moved 5, 10 miles down the road to nearby towns.

And thanks to Lass for pointing out that in the UK child prostitution is illegal for the punter, not the child.

WIth cuts to child protection services they wouldn't even need to traffic women in from elsewhere - austerity has created a prefect talent pool from which they can recruit.

Precisely. Another reason I so dislike liberal/third wave/sex pos feminism and the wider social constructionist/pomo liberal left. It's so bloody classist. The most vulnerable always thrown under the bus to suit middle class wants.

Stripper - nobody on either side of this debate - in the UK, anyway - supports the criminalisation of prostitutes, underage or otherwise. You're being disingenuous. In fact, Nordic Model supporters in the UK recently won a landmark High Court judgement expunging historical convictions. Nobody from the decrim side supported the case or took part in supporting demonstrations. To my mind, this speaks volumes.

@olennaswimple Gah hit post too soon.

Financial pressures mean that ever more students are turning to stripping and prostitution to make ends meet.

So it makes sense for the NUS to attempt some kind of harm reduction, bearing in mind that reverting to grants and zero fres for first degrees seems as impossible dream now.

ReluctantCamper I live in Rochdale and I was the same, it's truly horrifying. Hopefully now it has come to light attitudes will change.

@olennaswimple Financial pressures mean that ever more students are turning to stripping and prostitution to make ends meet.

Happystripper I and I suspect most of the other posters on here want punters criminalised- not prostitutes.

Your other comments about "dirty prostitute" "dead hookers" etc are straw men of such epic proportions it isn't worth the time to refute them.

Yes, very good point ScaryMary81, and one I frequently screamed at the radio during the early coverage of Rotherham.

Social workers turned a blind eye because 15 year old girls were deemed to have made a 'lifestyle choice'.

There is no such thing as child prostitution only child abuse, where a child is selling themselves by choice (without coercion) they should be deemed as a risk to themselves and put in a therapeutic secure home.

@LassWiADelicateAir

Actually in the US (the country this article is referring to) it is illegal to participate in full service sex work. As a consequence a lot of underage girls also get criminalized or at the very least fear coming forward due to deportation etc. So yes, victims are criminalized in this case.

@DJLippy

Firstly, at no point did I mention “empowering” so I don’t know where you’re getting that from. Though probably it’s just a piece of rhetoric you’re used to using. No job has to be empowering, and I really don’t see why that idea is forced upon sex work, as if it’s suddenly only valid if empowering. Also your much loved statistic it seems, comes from the lack of safety I was just talking about. There’s a reason sex workers are murdered. No one much likes us and no one cares. It’s easier to criminalize it than actually provide help and safety. Because of this we’re easy to kill, simple targets, a dead hooker is almost a funny joke. So really stating that fact isn’t helping your argument, it just shows the results of a society where it’s already stigmatized.

As for your comments on grooming etc. Criminalizing stops these girls coming forward. In a legalized society, grooming and coercion are still illegal but a girl coming forward gets help and counseling if she has been forced, not slapped into handcuffs for being “a dirty prostitute”. All criminalization does is drives these people underground, though I guess that’s nice for you, at least you no longer have to see it.

The problem is you’re not criminalizing trafficking, you’re criminalizing the 15 year old girl who is being trafficked and making her unable to come forward due to fear of prosecution

No one, absolutely no one is calling for the criminlisation of 15 year old girls. It is not illegal for an adult woman to be a prostitute. It is illegal for a 15 year old girl to be a prostitute but the person comitting the crime is the punter , not the girl.

What sort of a complete idiot and morally bankrupt creep do you have to be to support children/teens being in prostitution?

Calling her an idiot was putting the more sympathetic spin on it. Morally bankrupt is probably more accurate.

OP - did you see the NUS guidance for supporting student sex workers that came out last month? Link here

I wondered at the time where the drive was coming from, and still not sure.

I know this is probably going to fall on deaf ears as it’s a subject most people don’t really want to see the other side of but I thought I’d give it a try anyway.

Firstly the article appears to be pretty sensationalist, a lot of quotes appear to be pieced together and there doesn’t actually appear to be any definitive suggestion that teenagers should be encouraged into sex work. Instead it talks about sex work being a lifeline for poor women and that these women are often young. So it would be good to not run off with images of child brothels on every corner straight away.

Now to the point that actually matters, the senate bill that this is talking about is Fosta/Sesta. This is based in the context of the USA, which is important as full service sex work is completely illegal unlike the relative legality into the UK. The bill basically further criminalizes it by criminalizing any online “promotional material for sex trafficking”. All sounds good and jolly, right?

The problem is what comes under that material is safety information, customer screening services and some people’s only source of income. Imagine watching people rejoicing as they’ve just successfully burnt your workplace to the ground, leaving you unable to feed your kids while also not being able to access community resources? These women suddenly have no way of screening clients, something that’s been a fantastic resource with the spread of the internet. In effect, they’re put in a position where they need any work they can get as their advertising has just disappeared and they also now have no safety measures to fall back on. This bill doesn’t protect them, it makes them easier to murder.

But sex trafficking! You cry

The problem is you’re not criminalizing trafficking, you’re criminalizing the 15 year old girl who is being trafficked and making her unable to come forward due to fear of prosecution. You’re pushing her out onto a street corner and away from a lot of online presence that can be tracked and subsequently infiltrated by the police.

This doesn’t help willing sex workers safety or the possibility of stopping trafficking. I think everyone on this board would agree that banning abortion would just make it dangerous, but please see that the same is being done to other vulnerable women right now, just also with a feminist backing.

What sort of a complete idiot and morally bankrupt creep do you have to be to support children/teens being in prostitution

janetmock.com/2014/01/30/janet-mock-sex-work-experiences/

For some it is seen as a legitimate, even empowering choice, which is unfairly seen as shameful.

'Feminists'.
FTFY.