Nearly every mass killer is a man. Why aren’t we talking about that?

Woman,

Not sure why men should defer to your ‘wisdom’?

Pretty arrogant assumption.

2 legs good, 4 legs bad etc

There one form of Namalt - the healthy one - which is "well it's one section of men that are the problem - what can I do to help? I'll defer to your wisdom - what do you need from me. OK I'll do that..."

Then the other more prevalent unhealthy form "it's not me but others - are you sure you're not part of the problem? Here's where you are going wrong. Plus unspoken: btw I'm not going to take any action to advocate for women nor organise other men so we can tackle those who are problematic. Nor will I ever ask women if my behaviour is problematic"

Ok let me explain this one more time.

In the face of someone telling you about terrible things that happen to them and the people they love, how is criticism or 'nuance' justified? If someone tells me about racism I act like a human being and at least express human empathy with them, I don't criticise or try to introduce 'nuance' whatever that means. How is there nuance in a person's suffering.

WE ARE AWARE THAT NOT ALL MEN ARE VIOLENT

YOU DO NOT NEED TO TELL US ANY MORE

Stop using it as a way to imply the women are unfairly trying to tar you, as though, in a situation where you're a group that kills and maims and we're in the group that is killed and maimed, you are somehow the victim. Stop being a fucking baby, essentially.

Referring directly to that quote, what you've said is you'll teach your child not to be violent and you'll not associate with violent people. Essentially you'll just do the bare minimum to be passable human being. How is that not the equivalent of 'not my problem'? - essentially you're saying you don't want to put any energy into dealing with it beyond the absolute lowest level of effort you can get away with.

The guilt question is a ridiculous one. As many people told you, no one was trying to make you feel guilty because guess what? IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU AND YOUR FEELINGS! What is it with men and their feelings?

What can you do? Talk to the women in your life about their experiences of male violence. Listen. Don't talk about your feelings or how you're not violent. Does that seem like something you could do?

Spaghettijumper :
'I'm a man and I'm not violent. I teach my son not to be and I don't associate with people who are. Outside of those actions, why should I take responsibility for other peoples actions or share any kind of collective guilt?'

In this quote we have:

NAMALT
Not my problem
Why are you trying to hurt my feelings? In this case, make you feel guilty.

BINGO!

NAMALT is used as a slur on here that implies any man who says anything other than 'thats terrible' (i.e offers criticism or nuance of any kind) doesn't care about women and is quietly complicit in violence, even if they don't do it them self. Describing myself as a non-violent male isn't the same as any of those things

You really don't understand namalt. It's when we see your misogyny appearing when you say
"But I'm not violent so Not All Men Are Like That"

Or you say

"I object to you inferring that males are lore violent than women. Look at all the non violent males"

So we say OK NAMALT. Can we start talking again now?

Spaghetti

I think you are being wilfully obtuse.

NAMALT is used as a slur on here that implies any man who says anything other than 'thats terrible' (i.e offers criticism or nuance of any kind) doesn't care about women and is quietly complicit in violence, even if they don't do it them self. Describing myself as a non-violent male isn't the same as any of those things.

Not my problem. Eh? Its by definition everyone's problem, because we are all humans so I'm not sure where you get that from. I've made clear my feelings on that throughout this entire thread.

Why are you trying to hurt my feelings? Actually it was a genuine question, not an attempted guilt trip. I'll ask it again as I never got an answer then.

Why should I take responsibility for others peoples actions or share any kind of collective guilt? What can I personally do, outside of what I already do? (described above)

I think its an important one because a lot of posters have pulled the whole 'you don't share collective guilt but' card out.

This is a quote from you Patriarchy, early on in the thread:

'I'm a man and I'm not violent. I teach my son not to be and I don't associate with people who are. Outside of those actions, why should I take responsibility for other peoples actions or share any kind of collective guilt?'

In this quote we have:

NAMALT
Not my problem
Why are you trying to hurt my feelings? In this case, make you feel guilty.

BINGO!

Years and years of experience Patriarchy. It's a tactic regularly used on this board by men and which I've come across a lot in person too - women start talking about male violence and the impact on their lives and the response from men isn't 'that really sucks' or 'isn't that awful,' it's immediately all about them and how they're not violent and how they don't like, for example, women crossing the street at night because they don't feel safe because that makes them feel bad etc etc etc. Of course because women are so strongly socialised to be 'nice' and to always put men's feelings first it's very good tactic to shut women up by making them feel bad and by implying they're engaging in 'misandry' (a term that definitely has come up on this thread).

Spaghetti

Who is this fictional man who expects you to care about his hurt feelings? Or are you just getting yourself angry at what a man 'might' feel if it ever came up in a conversation?

I haven't seen that happen on this thread, and I certainly don't care how you feel about my emotions...

So when men start NAMALTing and going on about how talking about male violence hurts their feelings, do exactly as much about that man's hurt feelings as that man has done about women being raped and murdered, ie, in the vast majority of cases, absolutely nothing. Just ignore it and say 'not my problem.'

In the face of millions of women raped every year a man expects me to care about how bad he feels to talk about it?

FUCK OFF.

One thing that definitely would help to lessen male violence is to stop listening to men pedalling the fairy story that most men are lovely and adore women and only want the best for them. Women need to recognise that the situation we're in now is as a result of conscious action men took (non-violent men as much as violent men) to ensure that they could use women for their own gain and that men living now may have not taken those actions but they are also not doing much of anything at all to rectify them - any protections and freedoms women have have been gained through women having to fight tooth and nail for them against men (non-violent men, remember) who could have given those freedoms and protections easily but just didn't. Men may not commit violence but they do very very little to stop it/protect women from it and it is within that culture that the violence exists, a culture created by men as a whole, not just violent men.

Most mass killers, like terrorists, have a history of violence against women - terrorists are terrorists irrespective of setting - it's a shame that's so hard to understand for some

Worth repeating/highlighting. Absolutely.

Most mass killers, like terrorists, have a history of violence against women - terrorists are terrorists irrespective of setting - it's a shame that's so hard to understand for some

All designed to put the power differential in their favour

This line jumped off the page at me. It’s power, all of it.

Do you really believe that most violent men consciously consider whether to be violent or not and elect the former?!

Are you ... seriously suggesting men are unable to control themselves....?

You're suggesting women have evolved to the extent that they can control their anger and emotions ... but men cannot...?

Do you really believe that most violent men consciously consider whether to be violent or not and elect the former?!

Yes of course! Agree totally with smeddum - they aren’t hitting their boss. Or the bank manager, or their six foot six Colleague are they? They only do it when they know they can, when they know the power differential is in their favour.

Of course they can control it.

Do mass killers go up unarmed against the Tongan rugby front row? No, because they’d get pasted. They use weapons like vans and drive into unarmed crowds. Or they bomb parks full of families in Pakistan. Or they use sniper rifles from high elevation hotels. All designed to put the power differential in their favour.

Do blokes up for a fight on a Saturday night go for the six foot six man built like a brick shithouse? No they don’t. They go for men like my friend who is a slightly built five foot five chap who told a guy to stop hitting his girlfriend (and got a fractured skull for his trouble.)

The subset of men who cannot control violent impulses in ANY situation is small. Those men would arguably be suffering From diminished capacity.

The vast majority of Male violence is calculated so they don’t pick on someone bigger than them. I’m stunned you dont see this.

Do you really believe that most violent men consciously consider whether to be violent or not and elect the former?!

In cases of DV yes, I absolutely believe that. Unless they lose it and attack other people who don’t do as they say. A boss, a friend, a family member. If it’s limited to within their own home, it’s absolutely a choice.

What most men consider violence is incongruent with what women consider violent and harmful. Instead of deferring to our experience, being the ones who are most victimised by male offenders, which would be the healthy response, they prefer to talk over and mansplain where and why we are wrong

The thread was about mass killers being almost always male not male violence against women. By your "lived experience " reckoning I should not be posting on it either.

Smeddum,

Do you really believe that most violent men consciously consider whether to be violent or not and elect the former?!

If so, why? What is this idea based on?

Rationalising behaviour does not excuse it. This is a common trope on this board. You can explain why a killer killers but that does not mean he should not get a life sentence. Criminology is not a science of excuses.

I do think that attitudes towards women aren’t helpful, and that a man predisposed to commit violence against women would use that as an excuse. It’s not a reason though, it’s part of it, but not the sole reason.

It is clearly an interaction between genetics, hormones and environment

This removes all responsibility for the violence from the man doing it though. That’s my issue. My XH had a crap family, a crap upbringing and a crap start in life. However he managed not to beat, slap, spit on, piss on and rape anyone else but me.

So I’m sorry, but the “genetics, hormones and environment” argument without considering that it’s an active choice some men make is horseshit.

Accused of mansplaining after all that fuss they made about not answering, you can't make this stuff up

It's a pointless thread anyway the answer they want is that men are violent 100% because they want to.

I think it is fine to look at both to be honest. Men are more violent and it is right to explore the reasons.

It would be wrong for me to try to explain to a woman how they were affected by male violence. Equally, however, when exploring why men do X or Y, men’s experience should take primacy.

Instead of deferring to our experience, being the ones who are most victimised by male offenders, which would be the healthy response,

Men are by far the biggest victims of violent crime. A healthy response would be to look at why some people are violent and not just to look at their sex.

Mansplain bingo!

If you want reasons why MEN are violent, perhaps better to defer to their lived experience.