Nearly every mass killer is a man. Why aren’t we talking about that?

Do you have a habit of telling people about subjects they are already very knowledgeable about? Or do you just tell women about what women think?

If I go on a moderate feminist site, I just end up agreeing with everyone and nobody really gets anything out of it, especially not me

And what do you get out of mansplaining?

I wish the level of arrogance you have in telling feminists about feminism were a rare thing Patriarchy but it really isn't. The idea that you can tell us what women think about feminism is so ridiculous it should be a joke, but here you are genuinely doing it. It's amazing.

You’re aware that building an equal and just society results in just that, right? It doesn’t result in a society where all the men are getting raped, beaten, paid less, and have to do all the washing up?

Getting rid of patriarchal structures doesn’t mean that women will be treating men like men treat us now

I think the real fear that men have of feminism in general and of radical feminism in particular is that they believe women want to treat men the way men have treated women. I think they feel women want the tables turned and that men will end up with no rights.

That I think is actually the most telling thing of all about how men think. They claim that women aren't oppressed but as soon as the prospect of them ever coming close to the position women are in presents itself they're horrified - they absolutely do not want the treatment women have gotten because they know full well how awful it is.

I have never seen any woman express a desire to 'turn the tables' - I personally would gain no satisfaction from turning men into slaves and treating them like shit, what the fuck is the point of that?

I don't want to change things to disadvantage men, no matter how much they think that's the case. I just want my daughter to finally gain the opportunity to live in a world where she has just as much safety and opportunity as a man, where being a woman is not a disadvantage to her in any way. And that just can't happen within the way things are now, we've tried it and it just doesn't work.

Babel

If you disagree with the classification of patriarchy theory as a fringe idea, don't take it up with me, I didn't create that distinction, I'm just pointing it out. How many women who identify as feminists would agree with you I wonder?

The things I'm saying really aren't very controversial, they are pretty mainstream. The fact they seem shocking to you shows how much of an echo chamber you are living in.

This forum does not in any way represent reality, but that's the entire reason I choose to discuss these things here, it is really interesting to hear from the most extreme end of any debate and have your ideas challenged. If I go on a moderate feminist site, I just end up agreeing with everyone and nobody really gets anything out of it, especially not me.

Our society was built by men who set about systematically preventing women from having any rights. Just lobbing rights on top of that system will never work because the foundation is rotten. We have to rebuild.

This sums it up perfectly.

I think women can really learn something from the fact that a man will go on a feminist thread and tell women that they are doing feminism wrong. I think we need to really take in the level of arrogance that that takes and use it to understand what we're up against.

Radical feminism is about understanding that the oppression of women comes from deep within societal structures and that incremental surface change isn't enough. We've had a lot of incremental surface change - changes in laws and policies etc - and still women are disadvantaged, raped, murdered, paid less etc etc etc.

Our society was built by men who set about systematically preventing women from having any rights. Just lobbing rights on top of that system will never work because the foundation is rotten. We have to rebuild.

That's what radical feminism is about. Radical refers to roots.

Every thread I have ever been on has ended with me being told

Well as the Russians say, if three people tell you you are sick, go and see a doctor.

that equality etc is the 'rubbish type of feminism' and that revolutionary smashing of the Patriarchy and societal structures is key. And sticking it to the nasty men obvs.

Oddly enough, that’s not my understanding of radical feminism. Is it yours spaghetti?

Acknowledging that biology and patriarchal systems are the root cause of oppression isn’t quite the same as calling for a scorched earth policy.

You’ve said that it should stop at some definition of equal ops and you’ve been told why that isn’t enough. Repeatedly it seems.

But do tell us how we can do feminism your way. Which seems to involve no inconvenience to men, no ceding of power from men, and maintaining the status quo for men. No shuffling up a bit to accommodate women.

When all you’ve ever know is privilege then equality feels like oppression right?

Tell me more about how I’m feministing wrong.

And sticking it to the nasty men obvs

Only when they post inflammatory and patronising comments on a feminist thread.

Every thread I have ever been on has ended with me being told that equality etc is the 'rubbish type of feminism' and that revolutionary smashing of the Patriarchy and societal structures is key

But the smashing of the Patriarchy and societal structures which oppress women IS the key to equality, it’s not our fault you fail to see this.

What’s your understanding of radical feminism? Because it doesn’t seem to accord with mine

You don't seem to understand what radical feminism is.

Feminism = Great idea.

Rad Fem = not so much.

Babel

Again with the misrepresentation... I've never said there is no need for feminism.

I have said that radical feminist ideas of Patriarchy are unhelpful and retrograde.

I addressed your point about the 'PR job' that men (obviously) have done on feminism earlier.

Every thread I have ever been on has ended with me being told that equality etc is the 'rubbish type of feminism' and that revolutionary smashing of the Patriarchy and societal structures is key. And sticking it to the nasty men obvs.

If your looking for a PR disaster for Radical Feminism, then look no further than your own team.

It doesn't seem that surprising to me that in a male dominated world, a concept that challenges that dominance, ie feminism, is painted as ridiculous and something that not all women believe in. If feminism is ridiculous and pointless why are men bothered about it at all? Why not leave us to it?

Strangely enough, for all their banging on about how feminism doesn't mean anything, men seem to get pretty exercised about it and seem determined to discredit it and stop it. I wonder why?

If 'The Patriarchy' was so obvious, why are women like you who say it exists in a significant minority? Genuine question?

Addressed up thread. Men with the same ridiculous and dangerous viewpoint as you have done a PR job on the word feminist. When you actually ask women about issues you get a different picture.

What do you get from hanging out on feminist boards telling feminists there’s no need for feminism by the way?

What do you think the millions of women who have undergone FGM, the yazidi, the chibok girls, women in KSA, the murdered girls in ciudad Juarez and Canada are victims OF then? Puppy traffickers? Lone wolf killers?
Or a system where men who hate or just don’t think women are people sometimes kill, maim and enslave them?

I do have a morbid curiosity about what you think is going on in the world patriarchy - why do you think the problems women face exist? (I know I'm going to regret asking).

Patriarchy, including me I know five women who have been raped and didn't report it. Why? Because we knew that there was no way we'd get justice, we'd just get dragged through the courts, ridiculed and interrogated with our sexual histories scrutinised and multiple attempts made to make us out as liars and sluts out to destroy men's lives. There is just no point in trying to look for justice, not in the culture that we live in. There are millions of other women in the same situation around the world - subject to male violence with no hope of it ever being dealt with.

Every single woman I know has been a victim of some sort of sexual violence in her life, from groping to sustained, long term sexual abuse.

I and a lot of my friends have been subject to blatant sexism in the workplace - in one case I was told I would get a particular project but not if I pitched for it myself, I should send my husband because the person we would be pitching to 'is sexist and doesn't listen to women.' Therefore I would have lost out on a significant piece of income not because my work wasn't good (they did want to work with me) but solely because I was a woman. (I walked away at that point).

How is that not oppression?

Now if we can get past this retrograde, infantilising idea of oppression, we can actually address the problems that some women face

For a man who has spent the last however long dismissing, patronising and flat out ignoring women who are trying to address the issues caused by men, that statement is just utterly ludicrous.

Like I said, the idea of 'The Patriarchy' is common on a feminist discussion board, but it's not a commonly accepted idea within actual society

It is. It’s just you who says it isn’t and men who have the same mindset as you.

If 'The Patriarchy' was so obvious, why are women like you who say it exists in a significant minority? Genuine question?

We’re not, but given that the mainstream media is controlled by men, it’s not surprising that you don’t know that.

Spaghetti

I'm not surprised you don't agree. Surely that's the whole point though? Opposing opinions?

Like I said, the idea of 'The Patriarchy' is common on a feminist discussion board, but it's not a commonly accepted idea within actual society. Because its bollocks.

Babel

If 'The Patriarchy' was so obvious, why are women like you who say it exists in a significant minority? Genuine question?

Either the entire rest of the world is wrong, or a niche group of Radical Feminists are. What do you think is the most likely answer?

Now if we can get past this retrograde, infantilising idea of oppression, we can actually address the problems that some women face.

@PatriarchyPersonified uh huh.

You’re not doing a single thing to improve anyone’s opinion of men in general. But then I suspect you know that and are probably sitting typing furiously awfully pleased with yourself aren’t you?

Here’s a hint, you’re neither as clever nor as witty as you think you are.

You are not oppressed

Utter, utter bollocks. How can you possibly say this? Do you honestly believe that women as a class are. Or oppressed by men? Women as a class are oppressed as a result of our biology

We are subjected to rape, violence, and oppression on a global scale. Domestic violence is predominantly against women. Women are paid less than men, treated unfavourably even in the UK in almost all interactions with the legal system (Ulster rape case anyone?)
We are smaller, weaker and thus the target for violence.

In many countries we are still the property of men.

How can you look at the news and say women are not oppressed? Tell that to the chibok girls, to the yazidi women, to the First Nations women in Canada killed solely for being women. To the girls in ciudad Juarez killed solely for being women. To the victims of FGM.

If you genuinely think women are not oppressed by men you are living in some naive cloud cuckoo land.

Do you seriously expect women on a feminist board to agree with you that patriarchy doesn't exist/isn't a problem Patriarchy??