DARVO, coercive control etc

They sometimes spend the entire thread slurping from the delicious chum bucket of outrage when we refuse to engage and chat about bees and recipes.

cwenthyrth I like the trolling them back approach best. Those threads can be really funny.

One of the reasons for documenting the rules of misogyny is because they are useful for naming the behavior of a troll.

I am finding this illustration of DARVO extremely helpful in identifying the disingenuous, also. "I'm not hurting you! You are hurting me by saying I am hurting you."

It reminded me of an ex who got upset with me for saying ouch when he stepped on my foot.

If a thread is started by a troll and isn't likely to lead to a worthwhile thread, tbh report, and if outside MNHQ mod hours get the night watch to squash it.

Ok, so if we are aware of these various trolling tactics, we can spot them, and realise that further engagement is futile, as these people are not actually interested in anything apart from themselves, certainly not in listening and learning.

But what would the most productive response be?
Simply ignoring? (Which doesn’t feed the troll, but leaves them free to ensnare others?)
Stating that you decline to engage further due to XYZ troll tactics (Risks coming across as accuse and flounce?)
Or tackling troll directly on their approach and continuing to engage
them, but on your terms - addressing their disingenuity and keeping discussion on topic? (Might feed the troll, but makes it clear to lurkers what they are doing and has the best chance of preventing complete derailment of the discussion?)

Bumping to get Ereshkigal's excellent explanations at the start of this thread back on page 1.

Ex was a classic needs evidence sort of person. He did eventually learn the hard way after dismissing my advice.

There is a lot of minimising of and refuting women's opinions on the park run threads. Seems that some people are of the opinion that you have no right to feel competitive at park run not take note of the stats and placing a park run send out.

Reminded me of this thread.

The "rape is the result of a misunderstanding" troll is my least favorite type.

The 'exceptions troll' is another common one. Gosh, if it happened just once, never mind the other way a million times over - that exception somehow disproves the rule!

We see this type just about any time there is a DV thread, and a male (sometimes female handmaiden) comes on declaring 'but I knew this friend who was abused by his girlfriend!' Usually when they use this form, they are lying anyway, they infer a first/second hand knowledge in order to look legit. Then they go on to declare "see, this proves women are just as violent as men!". As predictable as night follows day.

Wait

That sounded rude

Very good point...

f course the 'best' trolls like to mix it up, keep switching tactics. And sometimes pretending to agree with part of a comment, then sea-lioning the remainder.

Goodnes you're right

Of course the 'best' trolls like to mix it up, keep switching tactics. And sometimes pretending to agree with part of a comment, then sea-lioning the remainder.

There are some fine examples of this here on MN.

Most of them are gaslighters really. They don't mind the odd or 20 lies to get the job done.

Males particularly excel in sea-lioning, the whole (rather passive-aggressive) "I really want to believe you, but you just haven't provided enough solid evidence to prove your position". Wasting others' time by making them cite sources, over and over again. Usually they pretend to be 'Male Allies' or 'Nice Guys', when they are anything but.

Of course the 'best' trolls like to mix it up, keep switching tactics. And sometimes pretending to agree with part of a comment, then sea-lioning the remainder.

Fun times. (not)

Another one for my viewing list - Gaslight. My mind has been opened so much since I have been on mumsnet. Thankfully, have also developed pincer grips on my brains. They are not going to fall out, hopefully!

The Gift of Fear and Why Doe He DO That both are excellent reads that help us sort ourselves out at the same time we learn to recognize the art of the con man.

Useful thread, thanks!

Thanks for the explanations. I'm also hoping to start understanding some of the dynamics better, as others have said.

I was just a child in a dysfunctional family when I saw the film "Gaslight" on TV. I feel sickish every time I think about it.

Sorry link fail

Gaslighting is emotional abuse that makes the victim believe or appear to be mentally ill

[[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film) The term comes from a film where a husband tries to convince his new (and rich) wife she's insane.

It can happen in relationships where the abuser has the victim believing that they can't cope without the abuser and at work as well.

Narcissists are pretty good at saying something (without witnesses present) and then denying it when questioned or confronted about it later.

Acorninspring
To manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders. Techniques include:
Telling blatant lies
Denying they said something, even though you've proof
Wear you down over time
Use things close to you / important to you
Their actions don't match their words
They use confusion, projection and lies
Tell you you're crazy and align people against you.

In addition to this being used in relationships, you can see these techniques being played out in public against feminists regularly at the moment (and on here) .

OMG! The sealion cartoon on page 1 is so good! I had a vague idea but was not quite sure what it meant! All is clear now.

Thanks for the thread. Could I ask someone to explain the term gaslighting?

I realise having read this thread that someone on my fb has been sea lioning me every time I post something about self id which is usually on a Sunday as I'm free to read the papers. Last Sunday I spent hours patiently going off and backing up my arguments that the sealion was requesting!
Today I did the same.. What a bloody waste of time.
Though the fact I'm putting the subject out there does mean I've smoked out three or four acquaintances that I didn't realise had peak transed which is fantastic.
I also hope some people are reading it all and forming opinions and maybe educating themselves. So it's worth it I suppose.
I feel a bit foolish though.

However I've set myself a challenge of two people a week to educate.