Your peaktrans moment for today! Top this if you can.

What does DARVO stand for?

Not from you, obviously, from them! Worried I wasn't clear enough.

But just as an example. The lady on that thread ended up being booted off it, and the other person ended up as a 'victim'.

Yes, and I'm sure we can all agree who the real victim was there. That's a fine example of DARVO.

Ereshkigal "We can't really impose our own preferences and standards on others."

Absolutely, I completely agree. I hope I did not look like I was suggesting others should not.

But just as an example. The lady on that thread ended up being booted off it, and the other person ended up as a 'victim'.

I'm on a forum where I used to engage, did not get anywhere. Now I just read. If they talk about a terrible (should be banned TV programme), I watch it. If they say something like this petition is awful, I make sure I check it out! But absolutely, each to their own.

@AskBasil wow, that is scary. "Nagging, misgendering and violence"

#womencansee

That is chilling.

I wonder if there are ways to show this thinking to politicians and those making laws because I really think there is a point in that article. The whole punching of women who they are wrongly identifying as terfs is a scary aspect of this.

Using the idea that misgendering is violence may be a way to enact violence, it is happening now.

The whole idea of terfs is ridiculous. People who are uncomfortable with self id don't have a problem with trans people. Lots of people on here are delighted to hear transsexual women here and hear their thoughts. I've been on many threads asking about trans men and their thoughts.

The real thing we don't like is violent males so does that make us vmews (violent male excluding women) or vmefs (violent male excluding females)? I saw someone asking something similar somewhere!

Certainly calling us all names and identifying us a thing 'a terf' appears to excuse hatred of us.

Misgendering is not violence.

I do think the laws around 'hate speech' etc need tidying up so it is clear that people can identify things that are true but not incite violence in any direction.

I wonder if we need more anti-misogyny laws to combat this?

I wonder what people in authority and power are also concerned with all this.

I really do not have a problem with people pushing back, but I think sometimes engaging just gives oxygen to the people with bizarre ideas.

I agree it sometimes does, but I know I often can't bear to see things going unchallenged. We all have to do what we see fit. We can't really impose our own preferences and standards on others.

@Ereshkigal "But one person spouting their ideas on the internet is not the same as being in a relationship with anyone gaslighting you.

It's not. But it does feel quite similar especially when others enable it. So some women are going to push back against it."

Yes, I get that. I don't disagree. But sadly I think it leaves us always in a position of reacting, not being proactive. We should be being proactive too, I wonder how we can shore up the rights we think we have now. I wonder if a lot of anti women laws are coming in under the radar, I wonder if maybe there are other things we can do.

I really do not have a problem with people pushing back, but I think sometimes engaging just gives oxygen to the people with bizarre ideas.

Hungry constantly? - While men can eat the same amount every day, womens intake needs fluctuate through the month. You're starving and binging when you're bleeding because you actually needed to gradually increase food intake in the week BEFORE you bleed, but you ignore your body's requests because you've been told you should use self control and eat the same amount all the time. If you pay attention theres a reverse around ovulation where you can comfortably eat much less than normal so even if youre trying to control your weight you can do it while moving with your body's natural rhythms.

That's fascinating, as are the other things on that post.

@Bloodmagic do you have any links to papers / articles on this?

So. Misgendering is literal violence is it?

So is nagging and refusing to have sex with a man who wants it, according to MRA sites.

#womencansee

But one person spouting their ideas on the internet is not the same as being in a relationship with anyone gaslighting you.

It's not. But it does feel quite similar especially when others enable it. So some women are going to push back against it.

@AngryAttackKittens "Someone on the IW thread said that her teenager thinks that people can get a chromosome transplant.

Maybe instead of teaching kids about gender at school we should teach them science? Just a thought."

Absolutely, my daughter told me a about a year ago she thinks men can get pregnant because she has heard about pregnant trans men. I did explain to her about pregnancy and what you need, a womb, and all that.

@MissTeri "Italiangreyhound Ordinarily I would agree with what you've said, but my concern is how long until we are not allowed to say that trans women do not have periods because it will be considered hate speech?"

I know what you mean and I think if women want to spend their time calling out this kind of lunacy, then that is fine. I'm only speaking for myself. I think I personally will just back away from crazy for a bit, if I encounter it.

"My ex used to gaslight me regularly. A cruel, horrible tactic that caused me to doubt myself so much that it affected my parenting, because I was constantly unsure if I was doing the right thing and would have to double/triple check my decisions. The relationship was abusive and although I was allowed an opinion it was always invalidated and I was told I was wrong even when I was right."

That is truly horrible and I am glad he is your ex. And I absolutely do not think anyone should put up with gaslighting in personal relationships. But one person spouting their ideas on the internet is not the same as being in a relationship with anyone gaslighting you.

"Now my concern is that will the government start telling me that black is white and if I dare to question that then I will be arrested and prosecuted. It's very much like 1984 and it terrifies me to be honest."

Yes, I totally see that. I wonder if our time and energy can go into enshrining in law freedoms we thought we already had.

Great post blood

Huh indeed. Periods at their worst between about 14-19, even though by that point I'd had them long enough for them to be 'settled', correlating with when my eating was pretty buggered up.

Interesting. My periods are painful and heavy, I've been told it's because I'm a redhead with very fair skin. My relationship with food is dreadful, I definitely do not eat like a normal human.

Thanks for that blood. I'm going to look into what you have said.

This is why women need to talk to each other.

I'm another one who's always eaten whatever I felt like. Other than in my teens, when my eating was distinctly disordered, and my periods were heavy and very painful. Which went away in my twenties, I'd assumed just because of age, but by that point I was also eating like a normal human.

Huh.

Bloodmagic

Wait, what? Really? Did I have "easy" periods partly because I've always eaten (within reason) what I craved, when I craved it? This is so cool!

Oh! I bloody love Mumsnet. Learn something useful - to women - every single day.

Bloodmagic

That's fascinating. Thanks. It's infuriating too! Should be taught in schools.

I had a very progressive doctor who told me to stop using tampons as they make your period heavier (I had fibroids)
Blood I like your post I'm saving it

And for all those saying that it's not fair to hold up one nutcase and pretend they represent the group, the problem is that the rest of the group is going along with this nonsense. It's frankly only half a step further from "some women have a penis, some men have a uterus, biology is a social contruct" anyway.

Yes, quite.

I've also found that tampons make cramps worse for me. Didn't realize that till relatively late in the game because I'd been using them since I was so young.

It's hilarious. Even if a TW did have a uterus (presumably in a shoebox under their bed) they wouldn't have the fluctuating hormones that cause periods and the associated symptoms.

And for all those saying that it's not fair to hold up one nutcase and pretend they represent the group, the problem is that the rest of the group is going along with this nonsense. It's frankly only half a step further from "some women have a penis, some men have a uterus, biology is a social contruct" anyway.

What's even more funny (or sad, depending on how you look at it) is that I've suffered from those 'validating' symptoms of menstruation for years and only now (as a 30 year old) am I starting to understand that a lot of the 'symptoms' are caused by interpreting womens bodies through a patriarchal lens.

Migraines and painful cramping? - Related to my hormonal birth control, which i never truly needed and will never take again (natural methods are MUCH more accurate than we were told in sex ed. We were basically told not to bother, turns out they are more effective than hormones when done correctly).
Chocolate cravings? - Magnesium deficiency. You're not gluttonous you need a mineral that is lacking from our modern diets and men don't suffer from the lack of it but it's crucial for women especially at this time. Cravings are there to inform you, take a supplement.
Hungry constantly? - While men can eat the same amount every day, womens intake needs fluctuate through the month. You're starving and binging when you're bleeding because you actually needed to gradually increase food intake in the week BEFORE you bleed, but you ignore your body's requests because you've been told you should use self control and eat the same amount all the time. If you pay attention theres a reverse around ovulation where you can comfortably eat much less than normal so even if youre trying to control your weight you can do it while moving with your body's natural rhythms.
Tired? - women's bodies have fluctuating energy levels as well as food. You're supposed to rest more at this time. Again, it swings back at ovulation when you have more energy and need less sleep.

(all of this is backed by science, not just my personal experience)

Sleep in, eat more, take some magnesium, and do yoga instead of cardio, and my period becomes a quite relaxing, rejuvenating time instead of a monthly torture.

I'd take a wild stab in the dark that it might be the AGP kinda people who have an imaginary menstrual cycle.

Exactly. And I'd go further to say I don't think they do have any symptoms.

They fetishise the biology, so will invent plausible symptoms to correlate with a period.

No one with a shitty period thinks that trying to make themself look 'cute' alleviates the symptoms.

I agree it's not characteristic of transsexuals who have gender dysphoria.

But given that transvestites, cross dressers and men with AGP form a significant percentage, maybe even the majority, of men under the trans umbrella, talking about it and bringing it into the open is crucial.

To any right minded person, the existence of AGP as a cohort within transwomen should be an automatic deal breaker in the first place.

I'd take a wild stab in the dark that it might be the AGP kinda people who have an imaginary menstrual cycle.