Push back via the LibDems?

I'm a bit of a commie to be honest.

Really? You have a class analysis based in material reality and power relationships evidenced by the dialectic? I thought you were a proponent of the hyper-individualised identity movement, since that's what you appear to be arguing hereabouts. I'm surprised.

Merchfach -
"Anybody would think you'd been sent here by the LibDem LGBT squad to try and derail this thread, TransAuthor.

Do us a favour, would you? Be a good chap, go and start a thread of your own and allow those of us who want to discuss the LibDems to do so. Thanks."

Lol I can assure you I am not a LibDem. I'm a bit of a commie to be honest.

Something, something persecution complex?

The LibDems are just awful. They disclaim any connection with the vile LGBT twitter feed but it carries on, and carries on using their logo.

Remember today when there was rampant misogyny just about everywhere?

I’m not on Twitter, but have seen some of their tweets screenshotted here eg describing EH as a whistleblower. Is there an easy link re LDLGBT to send to my LD MP (who has made bland assurances in a letter to me) to ask her what her thoughts are on that Twitter account?

Indeed Bourbons

And then say what a terrible cesspit mumsnet is, to discourage others from coming here and engaging with views.

There was a debate, near enough, in one of the Lib Dems Facebook policy groups quite recently. It was quite heartening, and you can see there that the level of one side of the debate is:

Transwomen are women and if you disagree you are a transphobe. End of.

Repeat.

There were a number of dissenting and questioning voices though. And what will happen if they are exposed to more of the actual arguments?

I want to have faith in at least one political party, and I have voted LD often in the past. But if we need to convince them that a women is an adult human female and those human females need words to discribe themselves and their experiences, I don't have faith that they understand what I need from a political party.

I'm not about to spend my time and energy getting politicians to be 'brave enough' to state facts.

What a surprise! This thread is being derailed also by the same poster, who I don't think really understands the POV that the gc women, men and transwomen here have regarding some of the issues around trans rights etc.

My area is a strong, active Lib Dem area and I've considered joining for other reasons. I'd be happy to join and try to unmuddle all this muddle so that trans people and women are not being bashed against each other constantly. I'm not sure how good I am at political stuff but I'd have a go.

I have a professional concern about a lot of the "trans umbrella" and pushing of stereotypical sexist ideology and also child protection concerns.

SwearyG I think I recently found you on twitter and now I want to be your friend - I had a similar awakening regarding believing the patriarchy all these years.

Merchfach

Do us a favour, would you? Be a good chap, go and start a thread of your own and allow those of us who want to discuss the LibDems to do so. Thanks.

Sorry for going off topic there myself. The Libdems are the only party I've ever donated money to and they used to be my party of choice. But I honestly now believe I'll never vote for them again. Not the current version of it anyway.

They NEVER engage with the argument, Anlaf.

They -

Start with empty, truth terminating cliches. Transwomen are women. Some women have penises. With a smattering of falsehoods. Transwomen are the most oppressed in the world. Transwomen suffer more violence than any other group. Terfs cause transwomen to commit suicide. Etc, etc.

Then continue by saying that we're all such mean, horrific transphobes, on the wrong side of history, denying trans people's existence, Etc.

Then flounce off when they've run out of steam repeating the above and realise they have no actual logical sensible argument to counter those that are being put forward by women.

Anybody would think you'd been sent here by the LibDem LGBT squad to try and derail this thread, TransAuthor.

Indeed! I'm sure that's not TA's intent but interesting they're unable to engage with the issue at hand.

Perhaps also a sign of hope - we can expect resistance, but not resistance that actually engages with our argument?

PS I have no respect for Susie Green, who has hounded a mother of four and wasted police time simply because the woman spoke the truth about what SG did to her child.

Up to 80% of children grow up to be happy with their sex if left alone.

But yes, that's fine, broken ribs heal and respiratory problems which prevent healthy young women from even running a short distance will get better, though it took months after removing the binder in this case.

Please stop telling me to tell lies in the name of 'respect'. I will not call a man a woman. Truth is important. Even if it hurts feelings. I respect someone's right to believe they are female. They have NO right to demand that I collude in this belief and speak lies. Sorry.

Merch and Wander, you're correct, I will write to them, our voices need to be heard.

Merchfach I think I'm pretty much where you are. I have the tiny teeny amount of hope that libdems might be a suitable party for me to vote for and I'm considering contacting them to discuss women's rights, benefits and brexit.

I just think it's inappropriate to talk about a child's genitals.

I think it's inappropriate for a child's genitals to be the subject of a prime time TV show, from which both parents and doctors benefit financially. What say you?

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/documents/408/gids-service-statistics.pdf

Seems pretty clear. 40 girls in 2009/10, 929 in 2015/16.

Remember in the eighties and nineties when there was rampant and open homophobia in the news?

Remember yesterday when there was rampant and open homophobia in transactivist circles?

Wonderdog - I think there is a huge gap in the research on gender variance and trans people, there was very little written until recently but more studies are being done. I look forward to their conclusions. I'd like to see your sources to back up your claim that there is a "huge surge" though, maybe that's just your perception.

SwearyGodPervert - Thanx for the valuable input.

Wonderdog and Parley - I just think it's inappropriate to talk about a child's genitals. It's kinda creepy, and feels like you're a bit obsessed with children's private parts to be honest. Leave the facts to doctors, not randoms on the internet.

Bourbons - From what I've heard, any medical issues stop once the binder is taken off. Please don't misgender SG's daughter or use her to justify your position. Respect the family please. There are people who detransition, current stats from the NHS puts it at 2% at most. People go through extensive therapy and are made aware of risks and challenges, at some point you've gotta believe the person coming into the clinic and let them make their own informed choices.

Transauthor I'm interested in the OP's point, gender critical feminism and the libdems. Meanwhile your on here to whinge about how you don't like mumsnet. Don't use mumsnet if you don't like it. If you think mumsnet should change its ways then start a thread talking about how that could happen.

Former LibDem member here. Was a member for many years,held office too.
The idea is good but I can't see it working. The libdems are organised in a very different way to the other parties. I'm not as up to speed as I was to the policy making but it used to be formed by working groups the amended and voted on by members at conference for example.
The lgbt lobby is very powerful, which was great around gay marriage, age of consent etc, but the party has a misoginistic streak that's pretty difficult to overcome.