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Original poster

Tom Daley in The Times "trans women athletes have to have testosterone levels which are often lower than natural female athletes, so it's hard to compete"

67 replies

Sarkyharky · 24/04/2018 07:39

Is this true?

OP posts:
BrashCandicoot · 24/04/2018 08:13

I find it hard to take anything Tom Daley had to say about women seriously after reading the interview with him and his husband where they were surprised that they couldn’t get a womb for hire as easily as they thought they would - the entitlement was astonishing.

Wombman · 24/04/2018 08:07

“It’s hard because if you are male to female trans you have to have a certain level of testosterone, which is often a lot lower than the natural female athletes. You end up doing sport because you love it, but you can’t easily compete. I hope that changes. Team GB had the most open number of LGBTQ+ athletes in the Olympics in 2016.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tom-daley-whos-the-daddy-lance-and-i-dont-know-ourselves-5ksxjw6kq

ShotsFired · 24/04/2018 08:07

Sharey link for you @Sarkyharky

"In sport, he concedes, the governing bodies haven’t yet come to terms with those who want to change sex. “It’s hard because if you are male to female trans you have to have a certain level of testosterone, which is often a lot lower than the natural female athletes. You end up doing sport because you love it, but you can’t easily compete. I hope that changes. Team GB had the most open number of LGBTQ+ athletes in the Olympics in 2016.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tom-daley-whos-the-daddy-lance-and-i-dont-know-ourselves-5ksxjw6kq?shareToken=8ebee0fa7b6f248587d1a314e2828a3a

OohMavis · 24/04/2018 08:05

I assume, when he says, 'often lower than natural females' he's referring to female athletes with conditions that raise their testosterone levels above that of most women. Caster Semenya, Dutee Chand etc.

Original poster
Sarkyharky · 24/04/2018 08:05

Of course he wouldn't. He's full of crap and his article has given me the rage.

OP posts:
miri1985 · 24/04/2018 08:04

I wonder if Tom would like to compete against someone who took performance enhancing drugs for decades, built up their strength etc and then reduced their level for a year before competing against him. Would that be fair?

They've done a study that even after 3 years of testosterone supression when compared against trans men (so people who've been taking large doses of testosterone) trans womens muscles were still much more powerful

Original poster
Sarkyharky · 24/04/2018 08:00

"you end up doing sport because you love it, but you can't easily compete. I hope that changes"

OH THE IRONY

WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN ATHLETES TOM?!

OP posts:
JoyTheUnicorn · 24/04/2018 08:00

Because Patriarchy.

Man can question, can use "bigoted" terminology without risk.
Women should know their place.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 24/04/2018 07:59

ardant

Your comment was spot on Smile

Original poster
Sarkyharky · 24/04/2018 07:58

Yes I thought Tom's use of the word "natural" might ruffle a few feathers.

OP posts:
Rufustheconstantreindeer · 24/04/2018 07:58

Olympic rules (I believe) were saying Testosterone rates of 10 were fine

Which is at the bottom of the male range

And much higher than the female range

Original poster
Sarkyharky · 24/04/2018 07:57

I'm assuming Tom Daley knows a lot about elite sport. How can someone in his position actually believe that it's harder for men to compete with women?

So many questions.

If testosterone is so important then why are we letting 'natural' (Tom's word! men compete against 'natural' women in the first place?

If a 'natural' woman doesn't have testosterone levels at the cut off level, can she take drugs to raise it?

Why are men who aren't affected by any of these issues, and can blithely carry on unchallenged by a sex that is stronger that they are, given air space for their privileged views? And yet white feminists, yes, even lesbian white feminists, are told they must check their privilege?

OP posts:
Ardant · 24/04/2018 07:57

Also sorry, I'm in a particularly bitter mood today. If that comment was off do report it please!

OohMavis · 24/04/2018 07:55

But I thought they are natural females.

sleepyhead · 24/04/2018 07:53

How transphobic of Tom to assume that all transwomen athletes have had their testicles removed.

Ardant · 24/04/2018 07:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JoyTheUnicorn · 24/04/2018 07:43

I thought the testosterone levels in competing trans women was higher than most women's, and has recently been halved to reflect that.
Plus those born male have the benefit of male physiology, which must (and isn't?) taken into account.
I wonder if Tom is speaking with the confidence of someone whose athletic success will never be threatened by competitors born the opposite sex.

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