Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Roots of Misogynistic Rage

107 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/04/2018 08:21

When one has been on the receiving end of it, it’s like the male is trying to murder(silence) women by destroying them, their lives and spaces in any way possible. They will not bear any woman denying them what they perceive, in their disordered thinking, is their entitlement - to sex, to access to children (as their possessions and /or sex), to unfettered free rein to use and abuse as they see fit for their own ends.

And new research suggests the anger, hostility and short fuse that accompany a man's narcissism tend to be directed toward straight women.
”Heterosexual, narcissistic men become enraged at people who deny them gratification, whether it's social status, having a trophy partner or sexual gratification," said lead study author Scott Keiller, a clinical psychologist and assistant professor of psychology at Kent State University Tuscarawas in Ohio.

www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=118736

From my observation and experience, I think its projected anger often. Many males are conditioned to believe that women owe them. Women are the ideal slaves in their minds. Somehow half-males' character hasn't developed sufficiently to separate out from the idealised slave to the reality of a separate human being. So when a woman says no, disagrees and/or rejects them and their behaviour, the misogynists can't contain that - it doesn't compute in their minds. Somehow their sense of self is immature and toddler like in the “Mum must give or I'll tantrum”. However adult male tantrums are extremely dangerous and harmful to women.

I’ve also observed misogynists have a lot infantile rage at their father, frequently because he is unavailable/violent/ gaslighted them, but the mother's the one more present and available to take their anger out on. She’s also most concerned with their wellbeing often, and is frequently emotionally available for them. When a child can’t take their anger to their father, they displace onto their mother. They copy their role models and it cements into adulthood.

This isn't the source of my supposition however is evidence towards it.

In their final statements, inmates express the most gratitude and sorrow to their mothers. This isn’t too surprising: studies have shown that nearly all death row inmates “have a history of parental abandonment, foster care and/or institutionalization.” Typically, the mother is more present than the father in their lives.

priceonomics.com/what-death-row-inmates-say-in-their-last-words/

The ones on death row are the ones who haven’t been groomed into covert abuse – they are the “low-hanging fruit” so to speak. The equally dangerous ones imo, from a societal and individual perspective (unless of course you have already paid with your life), are those who abuse covertly using coercive control, as we see in the latest thuggish behaviour at Bristol. They operate within the letter of the law, if not the spirit, and are enabled by wilful blindness on behalf of politicians, the law, plus its enforcement in its different guises.

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 25/04/2018 17:01

All the research to date shows that men are more violent because they are conditioned to be -

  1. By not being set appropriate limits on their entitlement (toddler tantrums, disrespect to females, harming others and aggressive behaviour normalised, downplayed and excused) - the golden child can do not wrong syndrome
  2. Some contend there is also a genetic predator element amongst some males (psychopathy)

Re spanking - firstly your attacks on my parenting, putting words in my mouth plus imagining what I am thinking or feeling are illuminating, if wildly inaccurate.

Secondly thank you for sharing your opinion. Without research or stats that back up your personal assertions, it's is what it is - an opinion.

Feel free to write your own post dedicated to explore your personal opinions. It's a large topic after all.

OP posts:
StormTreader · 25/04/2018 16:58

"I've often thought that heterosexual misogynists must find themselves in an uncomfortable psychological place. They hate women, but unless they want to be single and celibate for the rest of their then, they also need them. There must be huge cognitive dissonance in seeing a group of people as simultaneously both inferior and desirable."

Yep, I think this is the root of a lot of it. Their identity is totally dependant on being "a big man", "top dog" etc, in having all the power.
Wanting women means that the woman now has some power over them, and they HATE it, so it gets turned into fury that she must be playing some kind of trick or con, conspiring or cheating in some way to STEAL power that should be theirs, that his weakness is her FAULT. Thats why she should be "taught a lesson" or "put in her place" - the lesson being that all power rightfully belongs to him, and the place being below him in every way.

I think the hate that some gay men feel towards women is tied up in this as well - they see the power that a stunning bombshell can have over men and resent that they don't have that same power. It always seems to be the more feminine gay men that hate like that as well, maybe because they see women as occupying the space that they want - to be desired and powerful over other men.

theicegodmother · 25/04/2018 16:25

why are men (including "transwomen") so violent?

CritEqual · 25/04/2018 15:54

Thank you for providing some earnest data, and of course you're right men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators as the data shows. However that isn't the stinging rebuttal to my position that I suspect you think it is.

What I am interested in is exploring the roots of this problem, and seeing as the spanking of children in the UK is not illegal and one is allowed to use "reasonable chastisement" it's hardly going to show up in the crime statistics you generously posted.

I've tried to be crystal clear on this point, but I've clearly failed. I'm not articulating a position that I am 100% convinced that maternal abuse necessarily leads to violent men, because the question hasn't really been asked and researched before. I'm simply saying it might be a worthwhile place to look.

Tonnes of good thoughts have been manifested on this thread, and what I am submitting isn't intended to take away, but merely to add to the discussion. I don't know why you would be so against an examination of spanking in context of understanding male violence. Maybe you spanked your own children and don't want the spotlight shone on it?

Maybe my line reasoning will prove fruitless, I'm willing to accept that, but it's not an unreasonable place to start, and seeing as male violence continues shouldn't be be willing to entertain anything and everything in order to combat it?

womanformallyknownaswoman · 25/04/2018 12:30

If anyone needs to be convinced of the gendered nature of crime, here's a link to a report about women and the criminal justice system.

The perpetrator of physical abuse against females was almost as equally likely to be the mother as the father (33% and 36% respectively). For males, the father was more likely to be the perpetrator of physical abuse, with 41% of victims being abused by their father and 24% by their mother.

Note these stats on abuse as a child are based on self reporting from a survey - not verified by anyone else or service. It's a common factor that many male abusers insist they were victims of child abuse but in fact in group treatment admit they were lying (Ref Lundy Bancroft)

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/572043/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-statistics-2015.pdf

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 25/04/2018 12:24

I don't entirely understand where this resistance to men as devoted and involved fathers is coming from?

The focus of the post is the roots of misogynistic rage, not other males.

OP posts:
CritEqual · 25/04/2018 10:36

I'm not trying to argue female violence is the only vector into misogyny, but it's worth a consideration. Additionally I do believe as physical punishment of children decreases we are seeing an overall reduction in violence.

My lean is that gendered based violence does have a genuinely different pathology, as amongst generally violent males there is often a cultural taboo against hitting a woman. Of the men who do hit women I believe there is an element of sadism to it.

I don't entirely understand where this resistance to men as devoted and involved fathers is coming from? Surely it's as close to self evident as it's possible to be that decent parenting from either mum or dad is preferable to not? That both men and women perhaps bring different but complimentary benefits to the equation is not an inherently unreasonable hypothesis either.

SelkieUnderLand · 25/04/2018 08:51

.

Transpeaked · 25/04/2018 08:49

I’m totally unconvinced by the absent father theory - my abuser is merrily using the local authority and courts to abuse by proxy and his father attends EVERYTHING with him.

Ereshkigal · 25/04/2018 08:47

Yes Yet, I was actually going to mention it on here yesterday but it was more speculative then. There are a couple of threads in FWR.

Grandmaswagsbag · 25/04/2018 08:41

Another component I've raised before, but am usually shouted down, but to hell with it I'll raise it again, women are more likely to physically spank/ physically discipline their children, and additionally little boys are more likely to be spanked/ physically disciplined than girls. It doesn't take a genius to figure out a boy who was hit by his mother is going to have complex issue when it comes to women!

This. My dh as raised by single mother (no father present) who was no doubt an agressive bully. I would consider his childhood abusive, she would consider it discipline (flushing head in loo/washing mouth out with soap/cancelling his 4th birthday for minor childhood misdemeanours) He rembers being scared of his mum, physically and mentally. He has on (rare) occasion displayed problems in dealing with anger where he will hit out at inanimate household objects, He is always angry with himself and its not directed at me (been together 15 years). It’s funny how when I wrote about this on another thread I was told he was an abusive man throwing his weight around. Far from it. It has nothing to do with how he feels about women, it’s how he feels about himself and a fear that takes over when something goes wrong. On a separate note, his relationship with his mother has essentially made him quite scared of women. He struggles to assert himself in life and is often pushed around at work becasue of it. Now if he were a person with more violent tendencies, do I think that fear and anger would manifest as hatred of women and would he use that violence to try and assert some control? You bet. It’s not always modelling the father that could cause these issues.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 25/04/2018 08:19

Did you see that they think that the Toronto killer was a member of INCEL and was a violent misogynist?

womanformallyknownaswoman · 25/04/2018 06:29

It occurs to me that enabling male violence is a convenient way to keep people insecure, especially women. Being insecure on a base level produces anxiety and makes us easier to control.

Withholding survival conditions e.g. personal safety, housing, baseline financial support, food and so on creates conditions to make people wither not flourish.

Thus those with resources, money and privilege can sneer, putdown and scapegoat those who are withering to make themselves feel better/ create a personal status. I.E. enables bullying on a personal and societal level - those withering become the kicking posts.

So enabling male violence, as happens at present throughout our so called pillars of democracy, is the covert means of controlling women.

Thus this is why males are not invested in alleviating miscarriages of justice and giving law enforcement to women- it serves their purpose all too well to maintain the status quo - the invisible wire fence.

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 25/04/2018 06:18

I have also experienced and observed the covert weaponising of support support as payback for disagreeing/crossing a narcissist/migosogynist. Thus it's not always overt rage that's the problem but the covert undermining and taking away of someone's liberty that is the real problem - i.e. coercive control.

Most publicity etc focuses on the overt methods of control (withholding finances/ physical assault etc) but the covert are the ones that do most damage - isolation from friends and family, escalating control when woman vulnerable (pregnant and / child caring), deliberately being unpredictable in joint contributions - childcare/housework/finances - leaving the woman with no option but to pick up the slack and end up being overly responsible and thus over burdened and exhausted

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 25/04/2018 03:38

I was astonished at the number of people who do not seem to grasp the difference between punishment and discipline.
Brilliant work done by Alice Miller and others and people repeat the generational abuse they experienced.
Is there a society that does not glorify violence? That does not view violence as a viable solution to a problem?

Vicky1990 · 24/04/2018 20:33

After reading some of the sexiest comments here i am not surprised that some men find women hateful and bitter.
I have found that when it comes to nasty sexiest behavior women are much the worst.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/04/2018 14:41

@NotDavidTennant

I agree that for some children not having a father around is not an issue. For those boys who end up in care etc or having violence in the home - they're the ones who really seem to be at a higher risk of going off the rails seemingly i.e. violent anti social behaviour.

Also I'm not using absent solely as in not around but to cover those fathers who are around but not emotionally available for their sons - these latter ones do condition them to follow in their shoes - like any good cult leader. Hence cult patriarchy continues to reign, reinforced by boys only schools etc plus male privilege and the guys looking after the guys. Rinse and repeat…..

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 24/04/2018 13:56

It's an interesting theory CritEqual. I think the use of physical punishment for children really dropped off in the 70s (maybe earlier or later) so we'd expect to see a lower rate of DV about now if that is the case. Are we seeing anything like that?

MadBadDaddy · 24/04/2018 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CritEqual · 24/04/2018 13:24

Some people have criticised me in the past for victim blaming when I bring it up, as if I am blaming women as a class for their own abuse, but that isn't really my intention. As obviously we are all responsible for our own actions, but anyone who violates the non-aggression principle is culpable in my view.

I am not bringing it up to let men off the hook as it were, but merely to widen the discussion.

ReluctantCamper · 24/04/2018 13:06

Oh very interesting re corporal punishment CritEqual

CritEqual · 24/04/2018 12:46

The good father argument isn't just a narrative, it's an evidence based position. For what it's worth I've seen similar research that reveals that a child's intelligence correlated in a similar way from the quality of the bond and influence with the mother.

Another component I've raised before, but am usually shouted down, but to hell with it I'll raise it again, women are more likely to physically spank/ physically discipline their children, and additionally little boys are more likely to be spanked/ physically disciplined than girls. It doesn't take a genius to figure out a boy who was hit by his mother is going to have complex issue when it comes to women!

The take home from this is we cannot afford to let boys grow into men thinking that the stronger have the right to physically dominate the weaker. Which is essentially the message they are getting if they are hit by either parent! I'm also hugely In favour of testing and ensuring any man who may be potentially violent/ abusive, and ensuring they never make it a light year close to fatherhood. Just think if none of them were able to breed they wouldn't be able to perpetuate the cycle. I think the problem would correct in a couple of generations if that were to happen!

AngryAttackKittens · 24/04/2018 12:30

I wish I could say I was surprised, but I remember being that age. Was it a boy her age or a teenager or adult man?

MadBadDaddy · 24/04/2018 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 24/04/2018 12:00

My husband does the wife-work round here (the boring tidying/cleaning/laundry).

When I met his father I saw that his father did the same and so therefore gave him "permission" to take responsiblity for it without feeling deficient as a man.

I guess that's the sort of fathering we're talking about?

Swipe left for the next trending thread