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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liz Truss MP breaks cover: backs MN

88 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 01:57

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5642853/Cabinet-minister-prompts-transgender-row-backing-Mumsnet-users.html
Cabinet minister prompts transgender row after backing Mumsnet users 'leading backlash against militant activists'

That's a total if THREE Trans stories in the Mail on Sunday online dated with the 21st/22nd April.

This is Truss's tweet from 4 days ago

Elizabeth Truss @ trussliz
I enjoy a heated debate with @MumsnetTowers on childcare and I hail her for her approach to free speech. #openminded #freemums
With link to Kirkup's spectactor article.

The original tweet only got about a dozen replies, 24 retweets and a 105 likes.

Cursed E was one of the few responders.

OP posts:
Mumsnut · 22/04/2018 09:57

That's the first time I've fully understood how Arduous an ordeal it is for a transsexual to undergo the grrc process. She writes very movingly about it. Like Jaycee and Truscum, she seems to regard it as a necessary and worthwhile ordeal though

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 09:54

The protocol is very clear - Members of the Government are not permitted to speak/write publicly against the Government; if they disagree with Gov't policies, they must step down in order to speak out

Have you been following politics much in the last two years. This simply is not true.

Ask Boris Johnson.

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RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 09:53

I have been amazed at how successfully this has been done in this debate so far.

Its been done successfully using the same methods throughout history. We have largely seen it as a thing of the past and become complacent about its use. It has crept in slowly over a number of years, until 2016 when the dam burst and it became acceptable to brazenly use such tactics.

Corruption of language is always a massive red flag. Language is power. Control the language and you control people. Take common and agreed language away from the masses and put it into the hands of a few and you generally end up with a problem.

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TerfsUp · 22/04/2018 09:52

Kudos, Liz Truss. I hope that she is the first of many.

BlueSkyandSunshineToday · 22/04/2018 09:49

It doesn't matter what Tory MPs say...they always vote with the Government in Parliament.

Ah, but Liz Truss is part of the Government - she's not a backbench Tory MP who can say what she likes only to be whipped into voting in line with her Party.

The protocol is very clear - Members of the Government are not permitted to speak/write publicly against the Government; if they disagree with Gov't policies, they must step down in order to speak out (except in relation to issues that are specific to their constituency).
This is the second Gov't Minister who has indicated that they do not agree with the #nodebate culture.
It may have something to do with Stonewall recently (or soon to be - I can't remember the date) being hosted in Parliament.

UpstartCrow · 22/04/2018 09:49

The Tories haven't abandoned self ID, the consultations are still going ahead.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 09:47

Just be mindful that all this could disappear in two weeks time.

There is one more Sunday before the local elections. I am betting we shall see some strong stuff next weekend as there is political capital here.

Given that the Mail on Sunday seems to have identified children, as the achilles heel of TRAs, I expect more along those lines. (Note TRAs starting the narrative of section 28 and where this now seems to be heading. I have a gut feeling what the Mail might go for next, but I will reserve my thoughts for now).

I don't necessarily think that the Tories have abandoned self ID for this reason.

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Wanderabout · 22/04/2018 09:46

Learning to communicate is about learning how you sound to those who agree with and how you sound to those who don't. Current politics driven by social media is encouraging people to do the exact opposite. This is being used by political psychologists and activists against the electorate. They want people to stop talking. Its divide and conquer via fear and intimidation.

I have been amazed at how successfully this has been done in this debate so far.

The same set of people have also been targeting the narrative, history and acceptable language use through:

  • re-writing Wikipedia (feminist history, definition of woman etc
  • influencing google search results (e.g. Women murdered in 2017 result, paid advertising to suggest a GC feminist perspective is transphobic, who knows what else we don't know)
  • targeted mass complaints on twitter to shut down women's concerns and the ability to name biological differences
  • similar Facebook complaints and actively excluding people who name basic biological facts and ask questions about women's and children's safeguarding or try to talk about women's rights or issues related to their biology.

Legal and lobbying work to redefine and enforce language that has enabled this has clearly been done. Equality policies and wording that don't protect women on the basis of sex are also a big part of this.

Tackling all this is the next big battle for women.

Women need to retain language to discuss their rights and men are actively working to remove this. Pretty successfully at the moment.

BoreOfWhabylon · 22/04/2018 09:37

Well done Liz!

As for TERFs in disguise - it's not the so-called TERFs who are hiding their faces to physically assault women and prevent them from attending meetings to peacefully discuss proposed changes to legislation.

AngryAttackKittens · 22/04/2018 09:37

I am not familiar with cheese-gate.

Reminded me though that I just watched Boxtrolls (brilliant), and when I googled in an attempt to find a trailer to show friends the second link that came up in the list of Boxtrolls-related questions one might ask google was "is Boxtrolls transphobic".

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Ellenripleysalienbaby · 22/04/2018 09:34

Sorry, but is anyone else's first thought when they see something about Liz Truss our disgraceful cheese importing shenanigans? Grin

AngryAttackKittens · 22/04/2018 09:27

I'm pretty sure the Tories have dropped self-ID, actually. Maria Miller as an individual is still pushing for it.

Kyanite · 22/04/2018 09:26

It doesn't matter what Tory MPs say...they always vote with the Government in Parliament. Even the one who had crocodile tears about how the poor in her constituency were suffering, still votes for more suffering. This is currently a Tory policy in the making and they are the ones in power.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 09:21

Learning to communicate is about learning how you sound to those who agree with and how you sound to those who don't. Current politics driven by social media is encouraging people to do the exact opposite. This is being used by political psychologists and activists against the electorate. They want people to stop talking. Its divide and conquer via fear and intimidation.

This is why TGLWGH is important. As is trying to be crystal clear in the point you are making and 'minding your language' as much as it sucks at times.

This tweet:

Helen lewis @ helenlewis
Too many arguments about “tone policing” or “silencing” are wilfully conflating anger with low-grade spite. In the last few days, David Lammy has given a masterclass in being thunderously, righteously angry without being petty or small.

David is our Michelle in UK politics. We need many Davids and Michelles.

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Wanderabout · 22/04/2018 09:17

Hmmm. Reality appears to be colliding with the militant activist narrative:

"Truss could be investigated for backing a group that is effectively advocating violence against the transgender community. She may be a terf in disguise.’"

"TERF: A sensible woman who knows that the person in the ladies’ toilet with a formidable beard and a slightly weird smile is, actually, of a different sex from her."

AngryAttackKittens · 22/04/2018 09:12

She may be a terf in disguise

Cloaks and daggers at dawn! Honestly, this is ridiculous. We got rid of the Witchfinder General a long time ago, would be great if TRAs would stop trying to resurrect his corpse.

LangCleg · 22/04/2018 08:59

She may be a terf in disguise.

Can these people even hear themselves? Imagine going into your local pub and complaining that a female politician is a terf in disguise. Online echo chambers and activist bubbles do not effective communicators make.

BabyItsAWildWorld · 22/04/2018 08:07

Great. Let's show her some support on Twitter etc.
Give others the confidence to come out join us and speak up.

YesItsADebate · 22/04/2018 08:01

Well done Liz Truss. “Effectively advocating violence” indeed Hmm Only if your definition of ‘actual violence’ is having your feelings hurt by someone stating biological fact.

cromeyellow0 · 22/04/2018 07:48

"Delia started to play netball in September 2014 and learnt her height is an advantage on court."!!

www.bbc.com/sport/get-inspired/31748076

LittleLebowski · 22/04/2018 06:56

effectively advocating violence
Totally boils my piss. The only acts of violence have been one way in this debate.

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 22/04/2018 06:01

"effectively advocating violence'

LIAR.

thebewilderness · 22/04/2018 05:31

‘She is giving kudos to Mumsnet who are particularly vicious on this particular front. Truss could be investigated for backing a group that is effectively advocating violence against the transgender community. She may be a terf in disguise.’"
There is that 4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

MargeH · 22/04/2018 05:25

Rod Liddle in today's Sunday Times is 'defining' new words:

Terf A sensible woman who knows that the person in the ladies’ toilet with a formidable beard and a slightly weird smile is, actually, of a different sex from her.

Battleax · 22/04/2018 02:41

It’ll take the left wing much longer sadly, other than veiled remarks and hints 😞

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