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Original poster

"Cis allies" being asked to provide "protection"

256 replies

OlennasWimple · 22/04/2018 01:33

Can we talk about something that seems to be happening a lot at the moment: "cis allies" (note the " " ) are being asked to, in essence, prove their ally credentials but also take the risk and do the hard work apparently in order to protect transwomen (in particular) and transmen from attacks by terfs.

Just in the last week or so, there has been the video of the protestors on the stairs at the Jam Jar venue, which Bristol Sisters has claimed are "cis allies". There was a call out for "cis allies" to escort trans people home at night because they were scared that the terfs were in town and thus trans people were at risk of violent attack. The Free the She Wolf campaign explicitly asked for "cis allies" to attend the protest outside court in order to provide a human shield to protect the trans protesters who were going to be there.

And it's not just in person that "cis allies" are expected to get involved. When I posted the NUS slide presentation on "How to deal with terfs", one of the authors tweeted something along the lines of "Urgh, can a cis ally sort this out", and lo and behold a few new posters popped onto the thread to object to it, and of course MsIntern tweeted that she would get some of her MNHQ pals to take it down. (The slides also contain the suggestion that delegates "put yourself in between trans people and the TERFS")

What is going on here? How is the narrative growing that trans people are a) at significant risk of physical harm from terfs whilst also b) being significantly weaker than "cis allies" so they need their protection? Why are so many people apparently so keen to do this - to prove their woke credentials? Because they are hanging onto the coat tails of an exciting new movement and want to remain part of the gang? Why are so many of them women, when surely if you were looking for bouncers and security guards to keep you safe, you would want big burly men? (Pesky biology meaning that they are stronger than terfs)

Is this a new phenomenon? Have straight women always been asked to sacrifice themselves to the cause for no reward? Or is this just the TRA equivalent of making the sandwiches and putting away the chairs at the end of the meeting?

Confused
OP posts:
Rufustheyawningreindeer · 18/06/2018 21:26

assasinated

Time loop perhaps

GeordieTerf · 18/06/2018 21:25

Vicky

The term "CIS" is banned on these boards because it is offensive to natal women. You should get a strike for using it. Check your inbox.

AssassinatedBeauty · 18/06/2018 21:22

Are you broken, @vickyjgo? You posted that before.

vickyjgo · 18/06/2018 21:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Terfulike · 18/06/2018 21:20

Vicky
Stop being ridiculous
Men are men women are women, as correctly recorded on everyone's birth certificate at birth.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 18/06/2018 21:16

Vickyjo , don't condescend to us about was c*s really means. We know.

do we need to ditch the word trans and just call both women?
No.

We call women, women. We call men, men. Sometimes we aren't allowed to do that. Yet she persisted...

OldCrone · 18/06/2018 21:14

The c*s word is completely unnecessary. You can use women and transwomen. The word women does not need a qualifier, it means 'adult human female'.

AssassinatedBeauty · 18/06/2018 21:12

Women and transwomen/men and transmen will do.

OldCrone · 18/06/2018 21:12

vicky
I am sure that the people who bulldozed mumsnet into banning certain words had the intention of making this subject difficult to discuss.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 18/06/2018 21:11

vicky

i think its probably just a matter of finding your way with different phrases

But cis isnt looked on favourably and some posts with it in have been deleted

Various acronyms for transpeople have also been 'banned'

vickyjgo · 18/06/2018 21:06

Thanks Rusustheyawningrendeer(?) I didn't realise that term was an issue as it's latin for "same as" as opposed to trans "different from" it's very hard to discuss this without having an easy to use term - how does the forum differentiate between trans men/women and those whoes birth certificate was marked as their sex at birth as men/women and are not affected by being trans gender... do we need to ditch the word trans and just call both women?

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 18/06/2018 20:31

What another said

Mumsnet are coming down hard on the use of the word cis as well as others I won't mention just in case

So you need to try and be careful so you dont get deleted when you are trying to make your point

Would be a shame to lose the whole post for the sake of a word

vickyjgo · 18/06/2018 20:30

I just read the post on adoption, a subject I am very much familiar with, to compare the open adoption model to the Gender Recognition Process of 2004 is actually very apt - when a child is adopted their birth certificate is changed to show their new parents, no adopted child has to reveal to anyone that they are adopted and it only has relevance in terms of possible inherited traits or family history of cancer etc these can be looked into by the child but they do not have to reveal this is anyone unless they wish to - when a Gender Recognition Certificate is issued currently, or possibly by a legal Statutory Declaration under any reform, the persons birth certificate is amended to show their sex/gender this is then a private affair between the Government Department and that individual. An amended birth certificate allows a trans gender man/women to change their National Insurance number to the male/female range and not much else. Even with an amended birth certificate a transgender person is still subject to the opt outs in the Equality Act 2010 which allows single sex services to exclude trans people - the prison service and criminal Justice system also have access to the GRA database and so can assess transgender people as per current prison service rules. I hope this adds clarity to your concerns.

Terfulike · 18/06/2018 20:28

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AnotherQuoll · 18/06/2018 20:26

Vickygo If those activists you refer to identify as Gender Critical, I doubt very much that they identify as "c*s" and would strongly object to you calling them that. Particularly as most would not identify with the gender imposed on them for being born female. In fact, calling them that can be interpreted as "misgendering" them.

vickyjgo · 18/06/2018 20:14

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IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 25/04/2018 19:48

Great post Olenna'sWimple

Original poster
OlennasWimple · 25/04/2018 14:09

Thanks - bit of a stream of consciousness at a time when we have been having a few adoption related wobbles Blush

OP posts:
fruitlovingmonkey · 25/04/2018 13:03

Great post about adoption.
There are some good theories on here.
I’d like to add validation into the mix. I think the TRAs want to seem extra vulnerable by having women protect them. It makes them more delicate and “female” than actual women.

OvaHere · 25/04/2018 11:46

@OlennasWimple

Great post. I made a similar one on another thread from the POV of someone who was adopted as a child.

I made the point that the thinking regarding adoption vs transgender has gone in opposite directions in the last few decades. Years ago it was common to not inform a child they were adopted (if young enough to have no memory) and cover up any truths of the matter. Now the opposite is encouraged as best practice.

Transsexualism and Transgenderism is heading in the other direction of denying any biological truths and realities which I believe is harmful to individuals regardless of how they choose to present themselves in life.

Faceicle · 25/04/2018 10:31

Applause OlennasWimple.

Noqonterfy · 25/04/2018 10:00

Great post OlennasWimple ❤️

Springnowplease · 25/04/2018 06:17

Excellent post, Olenna

LangCleg · 24/04/2018 23:30

Don't be Blush, Olenna. That was a brilliant (and quite beautiful) post.

thebewilderness · 24/04/2018 23:16

Yeah, but for those who argue that sex is socially constructed or fluid... in that argument I don't get why it's still binary.

Public signaling affirmation being necessary for their mental health and the maintenance of the delusion is the only reason I can think that that they argue that the thing bot is and is not at the same time.