Everyone should see this IMPORTANT

This is men bullying women no need to try to explain it away as anything else. They do it as they are physically stronger. That's an imbalance right there.

If we let this pass we and our daughters may as well be the handmaidens of male privilege. Sit down, put up, shut up.

I'm not fucking having it. I debated going to a previous meeting but I didn't. Next London meeting tho. I have daughters and refuse to sit down whilst a bunch of pathetics tell them that they don't matter.

@SpringNowPlease2018 I'm not taking the piss, I'm just trying not to be at a total loss for words. This would be easier if my jaw wasn't on the floor.

I just showed to my husband. He had been peaktransed but now he's full peaked and ranting about it.

They are doing a good job here

Well, no. I've disagreed vehemently with people on multiple political issues before without a bunch of them turning up, masked, and blocking my access to a meeting.

As Terfs think they are here.

You rang?

It amuses me that TRAs describe TERFs as fascist when the former use violence and threats against women.

But that's the thing NotTerf ..you and I think it's just a political meeting by your opponents.

But I've protested at BNP and Britain first meetings and rallies. As have many. And I have shouted aggressive terms. A good friend of mine (now a senior social worker) was sent to prison for assaulting a Police Officer as part of a 'mob' during the poll tax riots. Peaceful protest in the ideal but history has shown us it doesn't get a lot of attention. And the Bristol protest didn't get a lot of attention because actually, very little happened.

These TRAs genuinely think they're in the right.

As I have at my protests.

As Terfs think they are here.

The people disagreeing with any view always see it as intimidation, aggression, violence, mobs and unacceptable because they disagree with the viewpoint.

The aggressors see it as necessary.

Both sides think it is right.

The point of stopping a fox hunt is that at the end of the hunt the fox is dead. A group of women sitting around talking about proposed legislative changes is extremely unlikely to result in anyone being dead the end.

fox hunting meeting

I can see the logic of stopping a hunt going ahead. But stopping a political meeting by your opponents? That is fascism, right there.

I'll be honest with you, I'm losing track of what people believe. Did those young TRAs in the video genuinely think they are women? If so, why?

I think both sides are in danger of losing any sense of perspective.

Trans people are very unlikely to be at physical risk from Terfs but a lot of young transpeople are scared. They're scared that Terfs want to eradicate them. They do believe it, from the propaganda they read and see. And also that they perceive that a lot of Terfs want to invalidate their legal rights that have been in legislation for a while now. Their genuine fear is that Terfs want to stop trans completely. A lot of the 'TRAs' are young, idealistic (as many of us were) and see the laws, many MPs etc supporting them and a small group of people saying no and often, in an aggressive manner (aggression doesn't have to be physical). Many have ASD and that does influence their world view.

A lot do genuinely feel this is a fight against transphobia and fascism. A lot think they are genuinely at risk. A lot think they are at physical risk - not necessarily directly from Terfs but for what they perceive Terfs want.

Terfs think the same but with an opposing viewpoint. They think it's a fight against misogyny and fascism. That their way of life is at risk. That they are physically at risk.

I am GC. I'm against self ID. I don't think male bodied people should be performing intimate examinations of women that don't want them to, or work in refuges or rape crisis centres. Or be in womens prisons.

But I'm seeing both sides using increasingly dramatic arguments based on very flimsy evidence.

I don't see these TRAs as terrorists anymore than I would see angry and aggressive protesters at a pro life or fox hunting meeting. People who firmly believe the other side is wrong and they are 'taking a stand for right' do act in ways they wouldn't normally and feel it is justified.

It has always been like this.

I think MN does a lot of good in raising awareness of self ID and its potential consequences. I also see what I think is similar propaganda as is being used by the other side. Scaremongering from both sides which is losing the point of what is actually happening.

@MadBadDaddy that rephrase doesn't look much different.

I've now bought a ticket to the Oxford event. I don't like bullies, and I won't be cowed by them. #Theycankissmycis!

Who do they think they are? They're nothing more than idiots and bullies!

I've never really been interested in feminism, but this has really opened my eyes to a lot of things; and because I have girls, I will not stand meekly aside whilst their rights are taken away.

The fact that one of them lunged at Magdelyn gives me the rage. She's just been treated for brain cancer ffs!

I missed a lot of that women's meeting; what happened in the end?

@SophoclesTheFox sorry I'll try again.

"It’s horrifying. Why is peaceful demonstration, leafleting, making placards not enough for these a-holes? "

IKR? If TAs stopped going low, women wouldn't have to keep going high, everyone could unclench and Trans topics wouldn't be constantly smeared all over the Topic lists.

As in, to ask them right there, on the staircase, while filming. We want a discussion, whether inside or outside the meeting.

then presenting alternative views

If only somebody could present a coherent alternative view instead of a range of memes.

“Transwomen are women”

“So how are you defining women here?”

Crickets.

I watched this and didn't really see it as violent (more as camera wobble). I take it there was actual contact that I missed. Bloody annoying self-righteous students, is what I took from that video.

(As an aside, is everyone else much better at judging ages and sex from half a face? I struggle until I've seen a chin or a bald patch.)

If this is going to be a frequent occurrence, I suggest someone like Julie would be very welll placed to ask the questions that need to be asked : 'Do you intend to prevent women from discussing matters affecting women? Do you think transwomen have more right to be heard than natal women?' come to mind.

I'm not at all sure how to read that comment, madbad. I can't tell if you're taking the piss or not.

"It’s horrifying. Why is peaceful demonstration, leafleting, making placards not enough for these a-holes? "

IKR? A bit less chest-beating and jungle noises, a little more crying hugging and singing, and we'd probably get a bucketload more sympathy. Then you would only be upset about us ripping off the Old School Feminist Songbook.

I am often disheartened at young people's approach to activism and thia idea that it is all about the shouting. It's not it's about going in and making points in a reasoned way all the time they spent outside could have been better spent inside listening and then presenting alternative views no one tends to listen to you when you are shouting. Violance and intimidatation is never the answer

That's a disgrace.

Julie did so well to stay calm.

As for Magdalen's video, I am compltely appalled. When I saw her at the HofC meeting, she is a) tiny and b) quite frail due to her recent illness, and walks with a stick. That someone would think it is OK to try to slap the phone out of the hands of such a person, threaten them, and physically block them absolutely beggars belief.

Cowards and bullies. You are NOT on the right side of any history, you awful, stupid people.