Everyone should see this IMPORTANT

Good point itsall

I will ignore attempts to derail for an alternative agenda. Thanks.

I don't, Zibidoo. But I don't have a problem with the mutability of the English language and how useful it is to have a language that can co-opt short cuts from other languages when discussing complicated issues.

Getting back to my original point, whatever one thinks on this issue, the behaviour of those awful little babies on the stairs is appalling and I am shocked that the police didn't intervene.

I acknowledge my femaleness without identifying with the subordinate status it confers on me. I dislike it when people use labels that conflate these defining elements of my identity

I hate to be the thread police, but there seems to be a bit of a derail going on, and we should all be mindful of not inadvertently posting things that can be screenshot and cropped to remove context, and then used to prove how transphobic we all are...

What a fucking fantastic post reluctantcamper!!

@HermionesRightHook 'Cis' isn't needed. 'Trans' means someone who is trying to identify out of their biological sex. 'Cis' is misleading because it implies men can be women if they identify as such. In fact a woman who identifies as a man is still female, and a man who identifies as a woman is still male.

women who were born in the bodies that match their gender

I wasn't. I bloody hate the female gender. It's the worst one. I want the one where everyone else does my emotional labour and shit work and I get paid more.

Having watched that video I'd really like to tell you what you can do with 'cis', but talk guidelines prevent it.

Suffice it to say that the 'cis' would need a wash afterwards.

is appropriate to use cis- and trans- as helpful extra words to try to make points clearly.

Really? Do you have trouble understanding what the word “woman” means?

I dont have a gender but i still have concerns

Is there any woman capable of independent thought who isn't blocked by India?

Zibidoo we're talking about an event that was considering the impact of the rights of trans people on people who were born women. It is appropriate to use cis- and trans- as helpful extra words to try to make points clearly. I was making the point that women who were born in the bodies that match their gender have some very serious concerns about upcoming transpeople rights legislation. But that's a very long winded way of putting it when there's a perfectly good modifier already available in cis.

I may not have been clear - I do actually agree with the majority of women on Mumsnet who feel that the upcoming legislation (and other issues) needs modifying to protect women, who are ourselves also a marginalised group. I have reached peak trans, but I'm not throwing the majority of non-TRA trans people under the bus while I do it.

Could someone tweet the video to India and ask for her thoughts?

So strange to have see the video of the meeting (civilised academics talking about politics and gender theory) and then to see what they had to to get through to attend the meeting.

thinly veiled men's rights activism

Oh yes, let's be very clear. This is misogyny pure and simple.

It's just made me buy a ticket for the Oxford Women's Place meeting. I'll have to take the afternoon off work and I wasn't really up for a scrap with half a dozen masked social justice warriors.

But do you know what? They can fuck off with their bully boy tactics.

They are all Self IDing right there on the stairs

Yup, self-iding as misogynist males

They are all Self IDing right there on the stairs. Believe them when they tell you who they are.

So 'Sisters Uncut' are mainly blokes? well, at least one of them is neither man nor woman - they are a they whatever one of those is!

But I also think that there is a serious conversation about safe spaces for cis-gendered women to be had.

There is no such thing as a "cis" woman. We are human beings, not isomers.

Bet you a tenner half these people aren't trans at all. They're entitled posh boys reinterpreting identity politics to bolster their white male privilege

Completely agree. These people are steamrollering over a really important cause with their thinly veiled men's rights activism.

OK let me rephrase: bet you a tenner half of these people don't even self-id

and yes, I must admit that mitchell and webb sketch was in my mind.

@thebewilderness

So 'Sisters Uncut' are mainly blokes? I'd heard that but didn't realise it was true.

I can't get the video to play in full -- how did they get past?

Please stop calling these adult males misguided youth. They openly advocate killing women who refuse to submit.