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Original poster

Trans unpeak.

353 replies

Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 20:42

After reaching peak trans I have followed a few well known Radical Feminist groups on SM to learn more.

Sadly I have come across actual genuine transphobia in GC groups which I thought was just propaganda put out by TRAs.

Because I only ever hung around in naice intellectual spaces such as here, I thought they would all be a bit like MN feminist chat.

One summary of a conversation went along the lines of

Group post
"There's a Transwoman fitting bras at a London branch of M&S" Shock face.

Replies include "oh no (angry face) I'm never taking my daughter there"

Me:
"Men can work as a bra fitter. We should be able to ask staff for a female fitter if we want one"

Cue loads of hypothetical scenarios that we don't know will ever happen and predictable posts about AGP and boycotting M&S.

Anyway this is just one example of many I've come across recently.

I just suppose, as GC feminists perhaps we should be doing more to call out transphobia when we do see it because it seems lots of people are using GC feminism to express their hostility to Transpeople.

OP posts:
ReluctantCamper · 20/04/2018 22:04

yeah, turns out I'm a 34GG and was wearing a 36E. The bra intervention is just one of the ways Mumsnet has changed my life.

PencilsInSpace · 20/04/2018 22:03

Another repeak moment is people starting a thread, tossing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what sticks, and never addressing any points made.

Yes.

MsBeaujangles · 20/04/2018 22:02

Regularhuey

I am not sure that being shocked by the idea of a tranwomen fitting a bra is hostile or transphobic. We are talking about an activity that involves our sexed bodies here and so I understand the concerns. If someone was shocked or objecting to a transwomen serving, at the till, someone buying a bra, I would agree with your sentiments.

Continue to think and make up your own mind about what you think is and isn't transphobic and hostile.

The posts on this board demonstrate that people vary on what they think constitutes transphobia and what doesn't, what they think violates the rights of females and what doesn't, where they think demands from TRAs impact on females and where they think they are inconsequential.
Where gender critical people, on these boards anyway, usually find consensus is about the fact that we think it is good to talk and reflect upon issues and scenarios.

I think the purpose of your post was to encourage people to call out transphobia when we do see it because it seems lots of people are using GC feminism to express their hostility to Transpeople. I think you should rest assured knowing that people on this board do call out transphobia when they perceive it and do challenge hostility when they perceive it. What you don't seem to acknowledge is what is perceived as hostility and transphobia by you, may be viewed as a reasoned perspective by others.

Teacuphiccup · 20/04/2018 22:02

To be honest in this climate I don’t think I’d have the confidence to ask for a female fitter, id just leave and buy three more of my comfy non wired old lady bras that I get from amazon.

Greymisty · 20/04/2018 22:02

I agree with IreneDunne.

HopScotchy · 20/04/2018 22:01

Regularhuey - you make no sense. Some women are perfectly ok with males in some situations where other women really are not ok. The point is women have the right to set boundaries. We don't all set the same boundaries.

Original poster
Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 22:01

Why would a man want to work as a bra fitter, and why would a woman want to have herself fitted for a bra by a man?

Some men do. Some are interested in fashion and there's a vacancy in lingerie so to work on the floor they need training in bra fitting.

Males do fashion Contour (underwear design) as do females.

OP posts:
nauticant · 20/04/2018 22:00

It's pretty straightforward. Women should be entitled to ask to have a female bra fitter, not a transwoman, but also need to go along with the spirit of the age and their conditioning and not assert themselves. In this way, women "keep their freedoms" and transwomen can be validated. Win-win.

IreneDunne · 20/04/2018 21:59

Bra interventions are another reason I love MN. My "Reasons to Love MN" is a long (and growing) list.

ArcheryAnnie · 20/04/2018 21:59

Regularhuey what do you mean by "unpeak", then? Do you mean "I have come across imaginary mean gender-critical feminists"? Or do you mean "I no longer believe that women and girls are allowed to have privacy, safety and dignity by keeping sex-segregated spaces"?

ReluctantCamper · 20/04/2018 21:58

and yes, good point by maxthemartian. Can I just clarify your views here Regularhuey?

In the unlikely event of me deciding I want an ill fitting bra and going to M&S for a fitting, if a transwoman turns up to do it am I a transphobe if I say no thanks?

Teacuphiccup · 20/04/2018 21:58

It’s not about them working there.
It’s about the fact that if you want to you should be able to request a female and get a biological female.

Some women won’t mind having a male gynaecologist but if a woman requests a female she should get a biological female no questions asked and without being made to feel like a bigot.

NotTG · 20/04/2018 21:57

Another repeak moment is people starting a thread, tossing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what sticks, and never addressing any points made.

SecretsRSecrets · 20/04/2018 21:57

sorry bold fail

SecretsRSecrets · 20/04/2018 21:57

CircleSquareCircleSquare Fri 20-Apr-18 21:00:52
So someone said something you disagreed with and now you have to give up a way of thinking? Ok then.

This^ x eleventy billion

ReluctantCamper · 20/04/2018 21:56

Another unpeak moment is suggesting that transwomen should never be allowed to work in gynaecology*

hang on a cotton picking minute. that is literally the first time I have heard that argument and I'm here all the time. What are you talking about?

maxthemartian · 20/04/2018 21:53

You've unpeaked nothing. Don't be disingenuous. You followed that group to criticise.

maxthemartian · 20/04/2018 21:52

So you say that anyone uncomfortable should ask for a woman but also according to you that would be transphobic?
And also by saying someone can ask for a female fitter instead kind of makes you the transphobic one.
Oh what a tangled web...

Original poster
Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 21:52

Another unpeak moment is suggesting that transwomen should never be allowed to work in gynaecology despite many males working in gynaecology.

OP posts:
HopScotchy · 20/04/2018 21:51

Where is the 'transphobia' OP? Women want confidence that when they request a female they get a female. We don't want to be making judgements for ourselves about people all the time. We want boundaries to be respected. I want to be in a position where even if the most masculine woman/transman in the world turned up I could have confidence that this is a female because I requested a female. It's my body/boundaries.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 20/04/2018 21:51

look what is your point?

what kind of a life do you have?

Lovesagin · 20/04/2018 21:50

Op are you saying we should be able to specifically state we want a female bra fitter, and get a female bra fitter, not a transwoman?

Original poster
Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 21:49

Transwomen have breasts that need fitting too.
It's ridiculous to say none of them could possibly understand about bras.

OP posts:
Original poster
Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 21:47

Yeah. Who in their right mind would employ a male bra fitter?

Uh, M&S apparently.
Coco de Mer in Covent Garden had male staff (both gay) who were trained in bra fitting. All the shop staff were.

OP posts:
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 20/04/2018 21:46

'transphobia' 'transphobia' oh please.......

Why on earth would a transperson choose a job as a bra fitter unless he wanted to make women and girls feel ucomfortable?