My daughter perceives me as 'bigoted' re transgender issues.

Thanks from me too, Jaycee. I don't always agree with all you say but at least I can understand what you're saying and think about it properly.

OP, I really don't see the point of those gender boxes. If anyone could tick any of them depending on how they felt that morning, what will the results actually tell the company?

I'm not even being totally frivolous here. Stonewall's definition and at least one online 'spot your gender' test would have it that I'm a closet transman despite the three lots of maternity leave.

Thank you Jayceedove. That was a wonderfully clear explanation.

It’s the victim mentality that this new trans generation proclaim, that the ‘woke’ people seem to be in love with. When we were younger we didn’t have the easy access to the internet and unlimited TV channels, so it was actually easier to ‘feel special’ as there were so many ‘real’ causes to fight for.

I think the trans thing (not including real transsexuals in this BTY) has become so popular because no matter what young people want to do, to feel special and unique, it has already been done before. I do worry that this obsession with ‘self’ will have a detrimental effect on real causes. Genuinely needed causes may get less volunteers and support as the woke people are too busy screaming bigot and trying to become internet famous, because they’re ‘trans’ and such victims. Let’s face it, many of the well known faces that publicly represent the trans community are completely talentless and would otherwise be living lives of anonymity. It’s their, shouts of BIGOT and self proclaimed victim status, that keeps them in the public limelight.

FunderAnna - I don’t think the posters referring to the influx of new posters on the feminism board are talking about you.

And no, you aren’t bigoted. Plus I’m not sure what the survey is trying to achieve - if they want to know people’s “gender feelz” then it’s fine I guess, but if they’re trying to gather data about employees sex then of course it’s a load of bollocks.

I would be Rufus...permanently knackered

Your daughter and her group have decided what are the correct views to have, and in displaying a not-right view you must therefore be a bigot.

Don't fear OP - it's like the Mark Twain quote "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

Wow at the people calling you bigoted. Pots and kettles.

The personal is political doesn’t mean that the political is only personal

It certainly does not. I'm sorry that you had that experience.

jaycee that is an extraordinarily good post.

My lecturers cultivated an examination of the self as the be all and end all, it was awful. I didn’t want to examine myself I wanted to explore!
The personal is political doesn’t mean that the political is only personal.

Sorry about the long post, but I just thought if you showed that to your daughter, FunderAnna, from the perspective of a trans person, she might see that care needs to go two ways not just one way.

love that post jaycee

On this question of 'support' if you are trans.

Anyone who is of the belief that the 'inner them' is different from their physical body, whose biological reality must be apparent to them every day, and unless they are in denial as it is the source of their dysphoria in the first place, has to need two main 'supports'.

Medical, to check if there might not be something wrong with their body to cause them to feel as they do.

Psychological, to assess whether they have any reason to have developed a false image of themselves as opposite to their biology.

They might not think either of these apply, but if they have any kind of grasp on reality it has to be apparent that given the unusualness of what they feel these things need to at least be eliminated first.

As a transsexual that is exactly why you seek out such support as early as possible and do whatever it takes to resolve whatever emerges.

Yet this is also the very support most trans people now want to eliminate so they can legally alter gender without having any medical or psychological assessment first. Because it is regarded as self expression of their gender identity.

But if you feel sure you must 'transition', as I did as a transsexual, then the real support beyond assessment that you really need is from your family and friends to understand and the ongoing care of doctors to assure you are kept healthy and psychologically stable. As changing is a big deal, not a walk in the park, and if you think it is then you need that support more than ever.

The whole point surely is just to BE yourself. Which means that you have to put back into society what up until then you have likely been taking out in NHS funds, or benefits whilst you start transition and so on.

You have achieved the equilibrium that you looked for and the onus now is on you to make the most of it an say thank you by what you do.

That means turning away from an introspectiveness that being trans inevitably brings to starting to be a member of a wider society and community which brings with it added responsibilities.

Some of which are to care what other people think, give and do not always expect to take, appreciate that not everybody will agree with you or automatically defer to your status as to who you are.

The worst thing you can do is enter victim mode mentality and look for and expect the world to care solely about you, or treat you as a special case.

Because if you expect bad things to happen to you, they will.

If you look for anger or confusion, you will find it.

But if you relish the good things about the life you strove to achieve and seek to be the best person that you can - guess what - you will find that too.

You went through this to NOT be a 'special case' any more. You sought to normalise your existence.

You should try being normal and inclusive and caring - not exclusive and demanding - because that will only make everyone else consider you anything but normal.

And if you transitioned in order to be abnormal and extraordinary instead of just to live as who you feel that you are - then you really needed to see those doctors and psychiatrists in the first place who you seem to want to exclude from coming anywhere near.

Ban the bomb and anti-war protests wouldn't have had the collateral effect of leaving some of the protestors with permanently mutilated bodies, though.

How odd that in an age when it's never been easier to get information and to make contact with people all over the world the response of some, mostly young, people is to restrict their information sources and contacts to a small number of 'safe' choices.

I read somewhere about a university (US) where when you spoke in a seminar etc you had to give your “position” first, eg “Leslie, transgender: I think...” or “John, African American:...” “Louise, mental health issues:” etc etc etc

Maybe the instigator of this just had a penchant for Python and certain old BBC comedies?

Unfortunately OP you have happened to hit on the student fashion of the decade.

It would have been 'ban the bomb' in the 50s/60s, anti-war student uprisings in the 70s and so on.

Currently its identity politics and let's all believe that biological sex doesn't exist.

You may have to wait until your DD hits the real world and comes up sharply against the realities of her biology to make peace. Hang in there. Of course, that may be short-circuited when she needs money - then you will be surprised how quickly she makes contact....

I read somewhere about a university (US) where when you spoke in a seminar etc you had to give your “position” first, eg “Leslie, transgender: I think...” or “John, African American:...” “Louise, mental health issues:” etc etc etc.

I thought this was awful. For about 250,000 reasons.

^ Teacup - I totally get where you are coming from. Experience equals evidence. I hate that. I guess I see it from the other side though whereby I want students to write about bigger, broader topics, but they seem to see university as a form of therapy and only want to examine 'the self'.

My dd is very “woke”. It’s bloody exhausting to be pounced on for the least trans (no pun intended!) gression.

It's as though youth subculture rivalries are suddenly intruding into the adult world, isn't it? My kids are both firmly in the anti-woke camp, but I wouldn't say for particularly "righteous" reasons. They just think the SJW/woke subculture is so overwhelmingly negative and miserable that they'd prefer not to be within a million miles of it.

The uni I went to was very woke it was the most toxic environment I’ve ever been in.
Everyone had to stay in their boxes and only talk about ‘lives experience’ which meant that it just reinforced the status quo. I had gone to uni to break out of my box but again and again I was forced to do work that centred on my ‘experiences’ so the black students could only write about being black, the working class students had to write about what it was like to be working class and the white Male students were allowed to write about anything they liked. They were allowed to even be funny and write about nothing important at all whereas ours had to ‘mean something’ you can guess who’s work was more popular to a wider audience.
I brought this up all the time but it was like banging my head against a brick wall. This was five years ago I dread to think what it’s like now!

My dd is very “woke”. It’s bloody exhausting to be pounced on for the least trans (no pun intended!) gression.

I do not feel i have a gender

I am unable to truthfully tick a gender box and would be happier ticking a sex box

I have never purposely misgendered anyone, i am fully supportive of LGBT rights and i think up to now the honour system with regards to transwomen has worked very well

Just because someone else does believe in gender and belives they have a gender it does not make ME bigoted, at all...in the slightest

Or should i really say that if i am bigoted for not believing in gender then you too are bigoted for believing it

Yes the survey is bigoted and TRA would highly disapprove of it.

You're not bigoted at all op. Your dd is though in TRA eyes. Hope she isn't targeted by them at uni if she dared to share her views :(

I’d question how that organisation is monitoring fair and equal treatment of its transgender employees if it lumps them in with their ‘acquired gender’. If, for example, it turns out that trans employees specifically are under-paid or under-promoted, how are they going to capture that information and address it?

I think there is bigotry present here, but it’s not coming from you.