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Original poster

Laurel Hubbard and Fallon Fox - Joe Rogan, Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz discussion

42 replies

Freespeecher · 19/04/2018 14:22

Hi all, first time (male) poster.

Have been following the gender debate with interest as it chimes with what I see as a wider free speech issue, with opponents who aren't interested in facts as much as blindly following a line and, if you're against that line for whatever reason you're automatically a transphobe etc.

I particularly admire Maajid Nawaz as he talks and argues so well, and, as part of a larger discussion, they start talking about Laurel Hubbard at the 57:26 mark of this video:

Hope you enjoy it and remember, you are not alone in the struggle against the repression of free speech ;)

OP posts:
SarahAr · 19/04/2018 19:47

Should be heard, not hard. Apologies for the typo.

SarahAr · 19/04/2018 19:45

I started listening around the 47:00 mark and I hard 3 men acting as an apologist for biological determinism, James Damore, Charles Murray's Bell Curve and Larry Summers.

Am I the only person on FWR who finds this problematic?

Then they they said that Laurel Hubbard did not have to meet any testosterone level targets, when clearly she did.

At that point I lost interest.

Lefty99 · 19/04/2018 19:41

Really interesting, I would never have come across this so thanks for sharing! Good to know these conversations are happening elsewhere!

SomeDyke · 19/04/2018 19:33

I thought it was a good discussion nice to know that commonsense persists. I thought the point that the 'specialists' who were willing to stand up and claim there was no difference, were (all?/mostly?) trans themselves. As opposed to those who actually are the ones being hit, who I'm sure if given a choice, say, between having this transwoman strike you, versus this woman, would know which one they would prefer. The whole skill versus strength, understanding of the difference skeletal structure makes etc, cases and sports where it is possible for (some) women to defeat men this is the level of specialist sport-relevant knowledge (akin to classification in parasports) that would enable fair competition.

That specialist knowledge applied without political bias or judgement, openly and clearly as is done in parasports, that is what we need, not being saved from a scandal by some 40 year old who should never have been on the stage dislocating their elbow...............

Original poster
Freespeecher · 19/04/2018 19:13

SGP

Point taken. I would merely add that they're all able to comment as it's that's sort of arena. If it were Question Time etc I'd imagine that, male or female, they'd be interrupted, talked over etc.

This chimes with another MN thread about mass switching from the Graun to the Spectator. Hardened veteran that I am (I'm on my second of their introductory Parker pens) I get the feeling there's a growing market for a place that offers the chance fora multitude of different voices and opinions to be heard. If the price of that is turning the page if there's someone I really disagree with then it's one I can live with.

OP posts:
TotallyLibrarianPoo · 19/04/2018 19:12

Thank you @Freespeecher and welcomeGin

jedenfalls · 19/04/2018 19:06

interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field/

I though this was interesting. Pretty well balanced. I don’t agree with the ‚‘conclusion‘ but at leftist it tried to maintain some sense of balance.

The rider under discussion is quoted (but not in that article) as saying that the other competitors were ‚‘just not trying hard enough‘ after recording that winning time.

SwearyGodPervert · 19/04/2018 19:01

It’s so frustrating that men saying it is heard and not shut down. I think they’re still a few steps behind though, the “becomes a woman” nonsense needs to stop. You can become a woman by growing up female, not by declaring yourself so.

boatyardblues · 19/04/2018 19:00

My FIL immediately got it when I started talking about TIM in women’s sport. Even if men can’t immediately understand the experiences which inform women’s thinking on sex-segregated spaces, they can easily see the intrinsic unfairness and safety issues with allowing TIM to compete against women.

busyboysmum · 19/04/2018 18:56

I'm seeing more men joining the discussion which is great so thanks for this.

LineyHasntLeftTheBuilding · 19/04/2018 18:51

Just watched it.

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 18:17

Thanks for the link. It's good that men can also see it is a crock.

0phelia · 19/04/2018 18:04

Curiousaboutsamphire
Oh FGS.

Thanks for your link Freespeacher I'll add it to watch later
Welcome.

thornyhousewife · 19/04/2018 17:37

Thanks, I saw this earlier and it was an interesting discussion.

Frightfulphysician · 19/04/2018 17:31

They explain why they are against m to f trans people competing against women. I thought it was a good discussion over all.

LineyHasntLeftTheBuilding · 19/04/2018 17:28

What does he say?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/04/2018 17:23

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