Julie Burchill - I knew I was right...

www.craftscouncil.org.uk/what-we-do/julie-copes-grand-tour/

Julie Cope

I for one am very glad that you reposted the link about assaults by transwomen, even if Hollie isn't.

My favourite Julie is Grayson Perry's Julie-from-Essex.

Weezol totally agree.
Julie Burchill never did anything by halves, so when she’s right, like on this issue, she is absolutely, spectacularly, righteously right.
(It also makes me happy to think of the two Julies and Suzanne Moore all being mates IRL

Luckily Holly Bee 1, in the U.K. the murder rate of Trans folk is very low. 8 Transpeople have been murdered in the last 10 years, which is obvs 8 too many, but shows trans people are relatively safe in the U.K. women on the other hand are murdered by the men in their lives at over 2 per week.

Dead right, Weezol.

I know. Politicians tend to pay attention to whoever is shouting loudest, especially when those shouting are fully paid up misogynists. And at the moment, this is a smashing distraction from lots of problems both at home and internationally - bread and circuses and all that.

And yet, inexplicably, TRAs do seem to have significant ideological support from senior politicians.

I think it is vital to keep in mind that TRAs do not have the support of a lot of Trans people, in the same way that MRA's do not have the support of many men.

I am very clear that I have concerns around the actions of some TRA's, not around the Trans community, who I have been supportive of for nearly 30 years.

Oops. Totally wrong place for that

Do you mean Isi’s private garden ?

*contributed under another name - I might add.

I had a look at threads from 2011-12 and it was discussed on here and I had contributed to them. I wasn't quite where I am yet but I can tell I was getting there at that point. Anyway my point is that Mumsnet was discussing it but the issue was extremely contentious then as it is now. The passing of time has only made the issues more significant. I am glad people Like Burchill addressed it then and more please they are STILL addressing it rather than backing down.

It is an issue which is still deliberately misrepresented as being a problem with 'all trans' when it isn't about individuals at all it is about ideology, policing of language and zealous dogma. It has never been about transgender people in toilets really but about upholding rights of women and the potential for people who are not genuinely transgender to abuse a vague and imprecise law. The fact it keeps being turned into this 'hatred of trans', 'eradication of all trans people', 'literal violence' and all those emotive catch phrases we have come to know so well is evidence of the discussion not being had and little tidbits and slogans monopolising the debate. I'm sure some people do little more than read Twitter statuses and believe them without looking any further. The mindless repetition of dogma and unthinking capitulation to altering language and blurring definitions is one of the most problematic aspects - it is very difficult to have a reasonable discussion in this situation. I'm sure most of us have wondered whether that is the point; to make critical discussion impossible; to make reasonable criticism seem like hate.

Can we even meet in the middle without the language to proceed?

I hope we can - there are vulnerable people on both sides.

“Y'all and folks sound fine if the speaker is from Alabama, but awfully silly if they're from Aberdeen.”

I think it demostrates how suggestible these people are. They’re evidently conversing with Americans who use these idioms. How quickly they have adopted these speech patterns for themselves!

@AngryAttackKittens Indeed.

Jesus do they not employ editors at The Spectator? So many typos it's hard not to get distracted by them.

Shame they're not channeling her talent and charm too.

Maybe with all this "y'all" and "folks", they're trying to channel Dolly Parton?

Angry - that is just what I tell the dds when language creeps in from them binge watching “the next step “...

I looked back at that thread from 2013 that discussed the Julie Burchill article. I notice it was started by kim147, who is trans, and who I've always found very likeable. Her posts have been deleted, though.

I was curious to see if I'd posted on the thread, and I had done. What I wrote was:

"Julie Burchill isn't really known for understating her case, is she? I've been reading articles by her for over 30 years and I've never thought "Well, that was a reasonable, fair-minded summary of the arguments."

"She gets work partly because she's a professional controversialist - but then so are lots of people. She also has a gift for the telling jibe, the cutting barb, that far fewer people possess.

"I notice in this piece she uses one of her favourite attack methods - I'm working class, and you aren't, so there! Bless."

I still stand by that. At the time, though, I was angry that the Observer pulled the article and wrote to tell them so. It was because it was obvious to me that the outrage wasn't coming from ordinary Observer/Guardian readers but had been orchestrated by people whipping up a fuss on social media. I thought it was a very bad idea on the Observer's part to allow itself to be manipulated by a group of people who weren't even the paper's readers. It seemed to set an unfortunate precedent. I absolutely stand by that too - that initial success must have given them confidence in the use of tactics to close down free speech. Look where it's got us today.

Y'all and folks sound fine if the speaker is from Alabama, but awfully silly if they're from Aberdeen.

Tanith Yes, I was thinking the same.

“"If y'all want to support a homophobe who only targets female bisexuals, and call yourself feminists"

Found the TRA. What is it with them and that word? “

Like ‘literal’ or ‘literally’ - the new word for “let’s pretend”.

I've lost track of which Julie did the bisexual piece - Bindel I think - but what I took from it wasn't at all that bisexuals don't exist. It was that all the women being sold the 'bi-curious' makes you more interesting line back in the day was an insult to actual bisexuals.

I like the coffeehouse bits of the Spectator but the comments always seem dominated by people who enjoy the posh people opinion pieces at the back that I skim through.

The Burch is back