School axes head boy and head girl roles, two boys are voted into new gender neutral positions

Lass:

Generally the way the heads of school are decided is a mixture of pupil voting and teacher choice. In the case of my daughter, she won more votes, but it was decided another girl would be a better choice (something I personally agreed with).

Also it's important to note that children are biased and influenced by society and therefore are probably more likely to to vote for a boy in a leadership role.

I can't see how it can ever be fair when unconscious bias is going to creep in. It has to be on a basis of equality, right from the start.

It wasn't just votes though.
They had to write why they wanted the role. Have their form tutors write references. Have their peers vote, and finally have an interview with a panel.
Hardly preparing for working life. The average job doesn't involve all of that.

If my school did this I can guarantee we'd get two girls. We always seem to struggle to get a suitable boy but there are loads of fantastic candidates for head girl.

"Fair point. Would posters be so objectionable if 2 girls got the posts?"

Yes. But, frankly, less so. It's good to see the balance redressed a bit sometimes!

If we are getting ridding of girls/boys/men/women/female/male etc then shouldn't we also be getting rid of Mrs/Mr etc?
How would that work, instead of Mrs Coffey, everyone says oi Coffey instead of Mrs?
Or like in some schools they refer to teachers as Sir/Miss, so how would they be labelled?

Who on earth decided that two boys would do a better job than any number of girls

The pupils who voted for them?

I would not have preferred it if two girls were chosen - my latter points about equality made that clear.

However, if a school chooses to pick based on suitability for the role, I am surprised that two boys were chosen, as in my experience, girls tend to do better at secondary school level and they have more interest in leadership roles.

And while I agree that enforced equality isn't a great term to use, I'm sure most people would have understood me to mean that girl/boy equality was written into the school rules to ensure it happens.

If you feed them they'll never leave. Like mice, but less cute and not as fun for the cats to play with.

AAK - You're right, I shouldn't have risen to the dangled bait.

Juells

It doesn't matter whether there was bias or not. What matters is that there's no longer a place for a girl

There is a place for a girl, (two girls even) she just has to be one of the top two leaders in the school.

Gender neutral always means default to male. Whatever you're talking about.

Juells

Sigh...

1. Its ironic.

1. Is this a message board for women? Feminism is about gender equality. Being female isn't a requirement.

1. Rememberthetime comment isn't the 'female' point of view (I hope not anyway), it is the ill-considered point of view.

Why, you ask, Juells?

It doesn't matter whether there was bias or not. What matters is that there's no longer a place for a girl.

I imagine rememberthetime would have no problem if the school/pupils (it isn't clear) had chosen two girls instead of two boys.

Fair point. Would posters be so objectionable if 2 girls got the posts?

DarthArts

I agree that it seems bizarre to 'do away' with the traditional role of Head Boy and Head Girl. At my school, the Head of each respective sex was seen as someone for the others to look up to.

I fully believe that a leadership team comprising all boys, or all girls can be equally fair, providing they are the best people for the job. I imagine rememberthetime would have no problem if the school/pupils (it isn't clear) had chosen two girls instead of two boys.

I just took exception that they decided (on no evidence) that the very existence of two male leaders is incontrovertible evidence that bias has taken place.

Why would someone with a user name of PatriarchyPersonified join a message board for women, and then gripe if we see things from the female point of view?

My friend said "that's alright, the head girl is more there to help the head boy - it's his fault"

...........

Misogyny, every culture in the world is saturated with it.

And now apparently the people running this school think that the solution is to pretend that it will go away if you pretend it doesn't exist. Good job, well done, you really showed those students how equal girls are.

This is a good indication of what we can expect from Labour's "all women shortlists" in the future.

@PatriarchyPersonified

My concern is that this new policy has resulted - for whatever reason - in a shift from boys and girls being assured of equal representation to a position where that is not assured.

It may well be that the boys were deemed more qualified (on what basis is speculative) or that girls did not stand for the senior positions - that's not clear.

Either way it doesn't strike me as progress.

And once more, I'm reminded of why single sex schools can - paradoxically- be so good at avoiding gender stereotypes. In a single sex school, every member of the 'sixth form leadership team' (or whatever) is chosen for their ability not their sex. Every member of the orchestra. Every member of the robotics team. Etc.

And once more, I'm reminded of why single sex schools can - paradoxically- be so good at avoiding gender stereotypes. In a single sex school, every member of the 'sixth form leadership team' (or whatever) is chosen for their ability not their sex. Every member of the orchestra. Every member of the robotics team. Etc.

rememberthetime

It seems that the result of being gender neutral is to naturally favour boys. You can't have gender neutrality until stereotypes and biases no longer exist. Until then forced equality needs to happen as unpalatable as it may be to some

That statement seems a little uncalled for. I mean do you have any actual evidence that the school voted for/chose those boys based on the stereotype that boys make better leaders? Do you have any knowledge of what actually went on, or are you just assuming there must have been a better girl for the job, but those bloody biased kids eh?

Forced equality? That's not equality.