Why are 'trans' males out of bounds for feminists?

This is where we are headed. Woman becomes "demeanor"

twitter.com/LogicalMarcus/status/986379811328274433

Because we can't keep them out?

This is truth, sad as it may be.
We can't keep them out.

All about Phil

Additionally, she has been integral in providing reverse mentoring to management board members of the firm and is co-lead of the LGBT & Ally program at Credit Suisse where she places much importance on intersectionality and how the voices of all types of women and our allies need to be heard to drive forward gender equality – our differences make us stronger and diversity should be celebrated, not tolerated.

Well he can make it past a lot of woman. He is one of the top 50 women in Financial services.

Why are they an 'exception' when it comes to entering female spaces? Why?

Because we can't keep them out? So we pretend that we are ok with it, that they don't pose a risk? We have been socialised to not upset the demanding man?

I'm sorry trousers I can't make it past Phil intro. Those pictures.

We can't know, Moofolk. If we can't ask the questions or collect the data then we can't know.

All we are left with is believing whatever these activists say. This is deliberate, of course it is. They are providing themselves with the perfect cover. But if we say that, we are proclaimed transphobic. There is no way but their way, if we accept their way at all.

The alternative is not to accept it. We can say no. But we have to expect that this will be met with intense narcissistic male rage. Because that is the group we are dealing with.

OP "Yes, as well but really I want to know right now what evidence there is to exclude transwomen as a male threat in women's spaces"

You mean what evidence is there that says transwomen aren't a threat to women? Pretty sure the answer is....none at all.

Read the attached seminal work in gas lighting and realise how baffled the human race has become. Deliberately.
outleadership.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Credit_Suisse_Transgender_Guide.pdf

outleadership.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Credit_Suisse_Transgender_Guide.pdf

OP I'm agreeing with all your points
Including end of days except at this point frankly I don't mind seeing that!

You say you're not new to the debate
Have you put these questions to anyone in real life? Just wondering what kind of responses you've encountered.

I'm saddened by friends who just think "feelz" and that we must be trusting of all transwomen, but I think those who are keeping silent might be seeing the issues.

There are many interesting posts above debating definitions (which clearly none of us know as they are both subjective and subject to change) but as I understand it OP was asking about still being able to analyse behaviour from biological males as a sex class. Not lived experience or feelings but large scale quantitive data on things like health, earnings and crime.

You are right that with self ID we lose the ability to do this. Many TRAa are arguing that to classify someone even legally based on birth sex is transphobic and I think we need a way to convincingly state the opposite. How can we know if TIMs have male offending patterns or (as many claim) not if we are unable to discuss and study this?

All this round and round about the committed people is a bit like angels dancing on the head of a pin, they objective of stonewall is to get kink in as gender expression

Its happening already.

Check out Pip Bunce

mirandayardley.com/en/cross-dressing-all-the-way-to-the-top-where-all-the-transvestites-have-gone/

Yes yes yes yes yes. This is what is happening.

Trousersdontmakemeaman I did wonder if appropriating women would allow men to normalise 'kink'. I read on Twitter a little while ago a small (at the moment) group TRA want to normalise paedophilia. Is this fight against women the way to do that? Make all sexual/gender preferences normal so we don't see sex with children as abuse. This is chilling if true.

quillette.com/2017/03/21/cordelia-fines-testosterone-rex-a-review/

There was a surprising finding recently that most trans-identified males taking hormones still have higher levels of testosterone than do women.

"Only a quarter of transgender women taking a regimen of spironolactone and estrogens were able to lower testosterone levels within the usual female physiologic range. Another quarter could not achieve female levels but remained below the male range virtually all of the time, while one quarter was unable to achieve any significant suppression." [What about the missing quarter?]

www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2018/02/20/medicine-alone-does-not-completely-suppress-testosterone-levels-among-transgender-women/

Testosterone doesn't seem to be associated with physically violence in males (though it does in females, which might explain why TIFs have higher crime rates than women?), but it is associated with social dominance.

Quite remarkable that 70 years after the use of cross-sex hormones so little is known about the basic physiology.

In fact what is happening is the desire to sanitise kink is behind all this shit. All of it, it's an abuse of sex, gender and orientation.

Agree Havoc It was eminently sensible and I fully agree. Transwoman should have rights, of course they should but they should not be womens rights.

I agree Erishigal. Stonewall must get with the reality here and stop abusing their remit.

They may wish to blur the line between gender, sex, orientation and kink but they do not have the public with them on this and they are bullshitting big time.