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Original poster

Spartacus believes in biology.

457 replies

HairyBallTheorem · 16/04/2018 21:03

Transwomen are biologically male. They are born biologically male and they remain biologically male.

I accept that it must be very hard to suffer from gender dysphoria. I wish transwomen well. I support their right not to be discriminated against in housing, employment and in life in general.

But biology matters. It is biology which means that women in Ireland and across South America and in many other parts of the world are the ones who get pregnant and are then forced to give birth against their will by political systems that deny them the right to abortion. It is biology which enables people in cultures which practice FGM to recognise which babies are female and thus decide which ones' genitals need slicing off with rusty razor blades. It is biology which dictates which foetuses are aborted simply for being female, which infants are allowed to die simply for being female. It is biology which means we are, on average, smaller and less physically strong than men and thus at higher risk of domestic violence up to and including murder (2 a week in this country, into the hundreds in Russia which has recently legalised domestic violence).

I am not prepared to lie about biology. Facts matter. The intersection of facts and political beliefs matters.

This is a hill on which I'm prepared to be banned from Mumsnet.

OP posts:
VioletWillow · 16/04/2018 22:03

Yup, I am Spartacus. I will die on that hill too. I have come out of lurkdom to stand for this, and banned too if necessary.
Twatter is already shadow-banning women for being gender critical, it will be a real shame if Mumsnet caves too. Being dignified is one thing, having to tell outright lies is another. A man is a man is a man. Because, Biology.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/04/2018 22:02

I am Spartacus. Science is real and biology matters.
Nobody has the right to decide for me that I must ignore its existence and force me to verbally deny it matters.

TheCrowFromBelow · 16/04/2018 22:01

Ah ok I see.
Yes the denial of birth biology is a bit odd.
But I don’t think that obnoxiously talking over people and being entitled is just a male trait (Katie Hopkins anyone?)
I think that certain personality types come to the fore in these debates, and they will revel in the oxygen being given to them.

Springnowplease · 16/04/2018 21:59

Still Spartacus.

busyboysmum · 16/04/2018 21:59

Blimey you pop out for a bit of yoga and come back and people are dying on hills....

I'm Spartacus.

I will never lie and say that men can be women.

I'd rather camp at the bottom of the hill and provide drinks and snacks though if that's ok.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 16/04/2018 21:58

Thus is Spartacus
twitter.com/DamienJStarfish/status/985873603035049984

counterpoint · 16/04/2018 21:57

The trans movement is another form of mansplaining.

I won't be told that millions of years of biological evolution that have finely-tuned our species into male and female can be exterminated on the mere say-so of people with a personal or mental health issue.

Original poster
HairyBallTheorem · 16/04/2018 21:56

Crow the original Spartacus thread was from when a long-standing poster was banned for "misgendering".

I call transwomen I know and respect "she" (I'm the OP btw), some women on here feel even that is a step too far. But this is about a blanket insistence that we never draw attention to the fact that any transwoman is male and - in their specific case - retains male pattern behaviour (e.g. any transwoman convicted of rape, which in UK law is defined by the use of a penis to penetrate someone, or D. Muscato inviting women to "suck his dick" on International Women's day, or male-bodied individuals who choose to attack women in their 60s at Speaker's Corner).

I have no intention of offending a transwoman who is getting on with life same as the rest of us - but the ones that insist in engaging in willy waving (at best) and committing sexual violence (at worst) have lost any right to my respect and consideration, and I will not be forced to lie.

OP posts:
ReluctantCamper · 16/04/2018 21:55

I can't get too lathered up about pronouns, but not being able to state the reality that a transwoman is male, and will have been socialised as a male?

Really?

If an archaeologist digs up the skeleton of a transwoman in 1,000 years time, they will say that skeleton belonged to a biological male.

Idontdowindows · 16/04/2018 21:54

Since when did MN say they would ban though?

In an email telling me my post was removed I was told that I had to be a good little girl or I would be banned.

HopScotchy · 16/04/2018 21:53

Is it some kind of legal problem if someone has a gender recognition certificate? If so are people expected to now differentiate between biologically male and legally female? It can't be 'illegal' to say someone is biologically male if they are surely? I think there's a law about disclosing someone has a gender recognition certificate so saying 'legally female' would be the problem surely? This whole law is so badly thought out.

athingthateveryoneneeds · 16/04/2018 21:52

I am Spartacus.

I will not lie.

Transwomen are men.

Transmen are women.

I. Will. Not. Lie.

dorade · 16/04/2018 21:51

I'm Spartacus, obv, but hang on - can someone link me to where we are being threatened with a ban for knowing sex is immutable?

Only yesterday, and again this morning Justine was in mainstream media defending our right to debate (and sounding as though she had recently peak transed herself). What's changed?

OvaHere · 16/04/2018 21:51

Also still Spartacus. I will avoid pronouns on here to not misgender (with the exception of convicted sex criminals) but I will not dismiss biological reality.

TheCrowFromBelow · 16/04/2018 21:50

Susan I think this is to do with pronouns and a recent court case.

I’d like to ask the thread what is meant by “Spartacus” on this thread.

To me, biology is important, but pronouns aren’t. I can happily call a trans women “she”.

Is this thread opposed to that?

0phelia · 16/04/2018 21:47

I am Spartacus. I consider it a form of coercive control to monitor my language and force me to say things I do not believe and that are simply not true.

Trans gender activists use numerous forms of coercive control. I will not take part.

Spartacus believes in biology.
IntelligentYetIndecisive · 16/04/2018 21:47

I am Spartacus

Feelings do not trump biology.

Try to convince yourself otherwise and you'll find Mother Nature is a cruel cow who will bitch slap sense into you at some point.

flowersonthepiano · 16/04/2018 21:46

I am Spartacus.
I am a woman.
I am a biologist.

Please do not remove our ability to apply the words male and female to describe objective reality, because of a feeling in another person's head.

HermioneWeasley · 16/04/2018 21:46

Still Spartacus

Original poster
HairyBallTheorem · 16/04/2018 21:46

Susan this has arisen from the thread on Julia Hartley-Brewer's interview with India Willoughby. Several posts have been deleted for saying that the way a certain trans individual talks over women in various contexts (all of them on film/on radio and publicly accessible for people to judge for themselves) is typical of male socialisation, and that this person is in fact male. Apparently we're not allowed to say that people are biologically male any more, even when they are, in fact, biologically male.

Also loving the "don't mention where the hill is or it'll be forced to cancel" comment!

OP posts:
AsAProfessionalPenis · 16/04/2018 21:45

Only a male can be a trans woman

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 16/04/2018 21:43

“Don't mention where the hill is or it will be forced to cancel.”
:)

thebewilderness · 16/04/2018 21:43

That is the crux of the conflict isn't it? The government is changing birth certificates from male to female in defiance of science and common sense. Now women on the Feminist women's rights section of MN are expected to affirm the delusions of dysphoric males or be banned.
Because MN will be legally liable for what we say in a court of law that requires the witnesses to lie under oath about the sex of the perps if they identify as the opposite sex.
Madness.

bzzbeebzz · 16/04/2018 21:43

I am Spartacus.
I am currently menstruating so either identify me out of this or fuck off biology-deniers.

I’ll be in a better mood in 4 days because biology.

SusanBunch · 16/04/2018 21:43

TheCrow I agree with everything you said. I too believe in a middle ground. Since when did MN say they would ban though? I thought Justine had just been on radio saying she supported the right to free speech?