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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Spartacus believes in biology.

457 replies

HairyBallTheorem · 16/04/2018 21:03

Transwomen are biologically male. They are born biologically male and they remain biologically male.

I accept that it must be very hard to suffer from gender dysphoria. I wish transwomen well. I support their right not to be discriminated against in housing, employment and in life in general.

But biology matters. It is biology which means that women in Ireland and across South America and in many other parts of the world are the ones who get pregnant and are then forced to give birth against their will by political systems that deny them the right to abortion. It is biology which enables people in cultures which practice FGM to recognise which babies are female and thus decide which ones' genitals need slicing off with rusty razor blades. It is biology which dictates which foetuses are aborted simply for being female, which infants are allowed to die simply for being female. It is biology which means we are, on average, smaller and less physically strong than men and thus at higher risk of domestic violence up to and including murder (2 a week in this country, into the hundreds in Russia which has recently legalised domestic violence).

I am not prepared to lie about biology. Facts matter. The intersection of facts and political beliefs matters.

This is a hill on which I'm prepared to be banned from Mumsnet.

OP posts:
AnitaLovesVictor · 16/04/2018 23:25

I am still Spartacus. Biology is not bigotry and transwomen are transwomen. Penis is a male sex organ.

Sorry I've not read the whole thread - it's late and I'm tired.

But for people who were Spartacus the first time round - I remember posting, and really thinking I might be banned. MN had banned a few posters for (I think) misgendering. I spend a fair bit of time on MN, so it was quite a big deal at the time.

I'm glad we weren't all banned Grin

frazzled1 · 16/04/2018 23:23

I am Spartacus. I am a woman, a female adult human. My sex was noted at birth just like my birth weight, it wasn't assigned since - like most - I'm not intersex.

I cannot change my biological sex, it is what it is, for life. I can dress how I please, partner who I choose and have all manner of operations to alter my appearance. If my bones are dug up in 300 years, I will be identified as female, regardless or not of whether I present in a way society expects a woman to look.

This is as true for me as it is for everyone, male or female.

A trans woman is a male who presents as a woman, they do not become one.

busyboysmum · 16/04/2018 23:22

@TripleRainbow I think we'll get an email a couple of hours before with a Google map to the hill. I'm hoping it's not too windy this time as I've just washed my hair.

Howyoualldoworkme · 16/04/2018 23:22

I was rubbish at Biology at school but I know what a biological woman is. And there is no magic way to transform into one!

I am still Spartacus

HerFemaleness · 16/04/2018 23:21

I am Spartacus. If your ideology requires you to deny science then it's a bad ideology. Male and female are biological descriptions of our role in sexual reproduction. No more and no less. These terms aren't offensive.

Pythagonal · 16/04/2018 23:21

I am not transophobic; I do not wish for the erasure of trans people. I want them to have a life where they live fear free - free of the fear of abuse, violence and discrimination. In face I wish them the same as I wish for all human beings.

I am also Spartacus; biology isn't bigotry. Science and facts don't care about feelings, and we do need to be able to talk about biology.

FloralCup · 16/04/2018 23:20

Took me a while to realise trans-woman actually meant a man wanting to be a woman (and not a woman wanting to be a man).
I started to pronounce it transwo-man in my head to keep me straight.

I am Spartacus.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 16/04/2018 23:17

"The beauty of biology is that it remains true whether you believe in it or not".

Yes, I agree.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 16/04/2018 23:16

I am Spartacus.

Tried writing a short comment to say why, but they all turned into essays, which I deleted. Lots of you have described the situation very well. E.g. @SpareRibFem, just above on page 4, is a good, coherent example.

LostMyLunchMoney · 16/04/2018 23:15

I am Spartacus.
The beauty of biology is that remains true whether you believe in it or not.

ExpectedItemInTheBraggingArea · 16/04/2018 23:12

I am Sparticus

I have given birth twice, breastfed my babies, and managed periods from the age of 10 to 49. I am now menopausal. I have recently undergone gynaecological procedures on my cervix and in my womb all thanks to my biological sex. No man will ever physically experience this.
I am a biological woman and no one can tell me otherwise.

SpareRibFem · 16/04/2018 23:07

I'm Spartacus

Came here when I found there was a place where I could state transwomen are men and transmen are women.

Gender is really not that important, but biology is unchangeable and those biological differences and the socialisation that occurs from birth due to those differences impacts us all our lives.

I am happy to call transwomen who do not act like entitled men she & her out of politeness, (but please don't think that means you 'pass' we can always tell). I expect them to be polite enough not to tell me I'm being a woman wrong.

I don't want transwomen or transmen to be discriminated against as a result of their dysmorphia.

I think it's critically important crimes are recorded against biological sex not perpetrators personal perception of gender.

thebewilderness · 16/04/2018 23:06

Male, men, he and him are proscribed. Under these rules it seems that cis should also be proscribed. I really do not want to have to refer to them as XY people but if that is the price to be able to talk about the erosion of women's rights on MN then OK, but are they sure? Really really sure?

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/04/2018 23:06

I'm Spartacus. Sex is immutable.

And I just want to repeat

PencilsInSpace Sex is why we are oppressed, gender is how.
Trousersdontmakemeaman Don't mention where the hill is or it will be forced to cancel.

Grin
Spartacus believes in biology.
TurningTables · 16/04/2018 23:05

I am Spartacus.

Please don't ask people to lie about something most people know isn't true.

Biology matters, we can touch, see, smell and hear what a man is.

I feel like Harry Potter in the office of Umbridge.

I will also hold coats at the bottom of the hill.

jedenfalls · 16/04/2018 23:05

Im a scientist.

Im a Spartacus.

WrongOnTheInternet · 16/04/2018 23:02

Sod the hill to die on, I'd rather find a crone island to live on.

WrongOnTheInternet · 16/04/2018 22:59

I'm saddened that this is needed again (I had a different username the first time round). Spartacus here. Biology is real. Reality matters.

Voice0fReason · 16/04/2018 22:57

We're going to need a bigger hill.

I absolutely support the rights of any person to express themselves however they want to without fear of persecution or discrimination.

Declaring yourself a woman does not make you one.
Biology matters.

AncientLights · 16/04/2018 22:55

Just checked the mirror: still Spartacus. Male cannot = female, female cannot = male. As to that hill we all plan to die on, it did have crap reviews, the bar was rubbish - no decent botanic gin - so I'm not too happy about going there. I want to die happy please. And drunk.

LangCleg · 16/04/2018 22:54

I am Spartacus.

Biology is material reality and a woman's biology is the fundamental cause of her oppression. I will not be subject to compelled speech, the effect of which is to erase these realities.

(I will work with MNHQ on etiquette and tone, but I will not surrender my freedom of conscience.)

Glittermud · 16/04/2018 22:53

I am Spartacus. I will sound my barbaric WOMAN'S yawp from this hill.

TripleRainbow · 16/04/2018 22:50

I am Spartacus.

Biology is reality.

Humans cannot change sex.

Anyone know when the hill venue is being announced?

Incarnationsofunderstanding · 16/04/2018 22:45

I am Spartacus for the first time and all time.

Female spaces and recognition of biology is essential.

I wish all those with body dismorphia well, it must be horrendous. But biology.

I don't want to die on the hill though, it's been a really shit week already, so I'll just hold the coats this time if that's ok?

Marchate · 16/04/2018 22:41

Men are not women, not female. Trans “women” are men, so I must be Spartacus