Parliament hosting Stonewall panel event on trans issues and changes to GRA

I see this as a good thing. The more TRAs talk, the more people will sit up and go, "eh?"

Meant to say before- obvs not all MPs will read it, but they all have free access to The Times, so may well have read some of the recent articles about the gender debate.

Excellent points Redtoothbrush

There two things that could be done here to reduce trans phobia

Thats:

1. work to reassure the public by ensuring public debate (not just on self id but an open, transparent dialogue which doesn't tell people what to think, but informs them in a way which is unbiased)
2. simply stop labelling blinking in the wrong way as transphobic and being overly defensive at the slightest curiousity / question / critical thought. People NEED to ask questions on their own terms to understand.

There is a need by the public to understand better. You can't just tell them they have to believe.

Given that pink news, stonewall and maria miller's position is pretty much the same: self id, no debate, I'm wondering what the purpose of the meeting is unless it is to tell women to stfu.

I think that probably is what it is. I expect they'll bring along plenty of the "right" pro-trans sort of women. Probably Sisters Uncut etc.

Lots of 'right side of history' 'poor me,me,me,me' 'this will make up for what gay men went through' 'women are horrible'' stuff, no doubt.

Angry

To tell MPs to stop speaking to the evil witches who oppose self-ID, I assume.

I'm kind of hoping it WILL be a debate between various parts of the LGBT community and not simply a presentation about self ID.

One of the issues here is the lost voices and the lack of debate within those circles every bit as much as the exclusion of heterosexual women.

It needs to be an environment in which various voices are allowed to be heard, rather than shouted down for not having the 'right' opinion.

Given that pink news, stonewall and maria miller's position is pretty much the same: self id, no debate, I'm wondering what the purpose of the meeting is unless it is to tell women to stfu.

Longweek thank you. 20+ invites a day - wow!

Pink News? Ffs.

And as for writing to MPs, I have written to my MP and received a standard c&p job that didn't address any of the questions I asked about women. I replied saying as much (fairly politely) and repeating my questions. No further response. I also emailed my MSPs. The majority of them have not replied.

I am sure no posters here are calling for #nodebate.
I think it is perfect reasonable for a group to lobby MPs, whether or not I agree with what they are arguing for.
Good MPs will make sure they are informed about everyone’s interests.
We need to focus on getting our interest and concerns more widely understood, just as the gender radicalised are seeking to do. That is something we have in common!

Pink news? Pink news?!

Are they fucking insane?

Concretesieve- around 20-30 invites a day to events, more in a busy week.

How many they attend- depends if MP is a minister (fewer) or back bench (more events likely)
Also- more likely to attend if lots of constituents have specifically emailed and asked them to go.

I work for an MP. He goes to about 2/3 of these type things a week IF they are drop ins (this is not). A panel discussion taking 1.5 hpurs- maybe once or twice a month if it’s something he has a particular interest in. He does not have the time to plan speeches, be in debates, correspondence, sit on bill and select committees, meetings with individuals, lobbying of ministers, etc etc AND go to lots of fringe charity events.

This is fairly standard type wording for pressure group event in HoC.

Tbh, MPs are busy people so they won’t get masses of them there. There are dozens of meetings in parliament every day about every possible subject under the sun. MPs cannot go to them all, and do not want to. They have committees, debates etc to do as well.
Stonewall are not the only people organising gender discussions in parliament. There are other things going on which are not widely known about.

Maria miller is not women & equalities minister, she is sponsoring the event.

Proposals to reforms have not been made yet, and if/when they are, and are likely to be debated -That is when most MPs will start thinking more about this.

Many have simply not thought about it. The 3 MPs I chatted to last week had no idea about the self ID proposals. None were in favour.

But keep writing to MPs. Tell them your concerns.

We want debate. We want discussion. MPs are (generally) not stupid and msg will want to hear from all sides before making choices. It is unlikely that this topic would be whipped for a vote, so they get to chose and not follow party lines. (Except SNP who tend to vote en-bloc)

It’s great that stonewall are having a meeting. Parliament is a place of debate. They should be able to air their views- as should people who have concerns about self ID.

I'm no expert at all, but my general impression is that MPs get a good few invitations from charities and so on for events like this. How many they attend I just don't know i.e. it might be very few, depending on the subject ...?

OTOH - recent work by MNers might encourage some to attend and raise points that concern feminists.

I know MNers have experience and expertise in many fields - is there anyone that can advise about lobbying?

iller is the Equalities and Women’s officer then she needs to host a Women’s Event either in tandem with Stonewall or as a separate but linked event, encouraging MPs to attend both for balance. It's in her job title!

She's no longer a minister and hasn't been for some time.

She is however the chair of the women and equalities select committee.

I have no objection to Stonewall meeting in HoC. But ministers and MPs need to facilitate all sides in this debate, including women and girls, and all children.

I want a balanced discussion too. It's fair and right that transpeople meet with MP's to discuss the issues which affect their lives. But given that our rights rather than compete, women must also be listened to and given a platform.

Yes, an additional meeting in which women can be heard must take place.

It is only fair. Otherwise it is the absolute proof of the silencing of women's voices.

I'm sure Maria Miller already has it in hand.

Justine would be great on the panel.

It's good that they're heading to the centre of our democracy. Hopefully they'll be able to explain how #nodebate is commensurate with living in a democracy.

The challenge is to give MPs the confidence that it is OK to ask challenging questions like;
How to ensure one group's rights don't eradicate the rights of other groups?
How to ensure everyone retains the right to privacy and dignity from the opposite sex?
How to preserve women's sport?
How to ensure that self ID isn't allowed as cover for predators?
How to ensure that no group erodes safeguarding principles for children
etc etc.

I thought someone else is now the minister for women and equality. This is Maria Miller's personal project. The meeting sounds like the Venice/David Davis meeting to me.

This thread is being screenshot and shared on Twitter.

I just want a balanced conversation. I am happy for Stonewall to set out the position from the perspective of trans rights. I assume they will also be happy to have a panel representing women who wish to talk about how trans rights and sex-based exemptions intersect from a different perspective? A balanced conversation in front of MPs is a reasonable request/expectation, I believe.

I’m happy for Stonewall to lobby, but as Maria Miller is the Equalities and Women’s officer then she needs to host a Women’s Event either in tandem with Stonewall or as a separate but linked event, encouraging MPs to attend both for balance. It's in her job title!

Yes, exactly.

Separating the facts from myths on some of the key areas where opponents to reform have focused.

I think this is key.

At the moment, the ‘facts and myths’ cannot be set out by anyone, as proposals for reforms have not been properly debated by Parliament or published. So how they’re going to advise on what the ‘facts’ are before facts are genuinely available is somewhat premature.

All self-ID is currently is speculation as there is no process agreed.

Surely?

I’m happy for Stonewall to lobby, but as Maria Miller is the Equalities and Women’s officer then she needs to host a Women’s Event either in tandem with Stonewall or as a separate but linked event, encouraging MPs to attend both for balance. It's in her job title!