Conservatives not on board with transgender policy

Not as clear cut as that of course, because there are unionists in Momentum.

The Venn diagram of Labour Party factionalism is mighty complicated! Even for those of us with decades of involvement.

I have voted in every local election and every General Election since 1976. For the first time ever, I think I'll be spoiling my paper; can't think of anything else I can do as I really can't vote Tory.

Each way bet, Momentum with the young, TU with the older voter?

Looking at Owen Jones' Twitter feed, the majority of campaigners are youth, very few older women compared to last year.

They are chasing the young because they have lost many older voters. We have experience and watched this all play out before.

I read an article a while back about the unions vs. Momentum in the Labour Party.

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/labour-s-next-civil-war-is-a-battle-over-what-it-means-to-be-a-woman-a3793541.html

Not as clear cut as that of course, because there are unionists in Momentum.

A Woman's Place UK has a lot of union officials. And Andrew Murray, Chief of Staff from Unite (and an advisor to Corbyn) has already put his name to the letter in the Morning Star denouncing the attacks from TRAs on Kiri Tunks, the new head of the NUT for alleged transphobia.

Be interesting to see how all that plays out.

Indeed. Wasn't there some polling analysis showing that older female voters were in fact just as important?

Yes. And at the GE, when I campaigned alongside Momentum members several times, most of the contingent was made up of 30-something women, usually public sector workers.

It seems that the pro-Momentum lefty dudebros are more likely to do their campaigning by shouting at non-compliant women on Twitter. Colour me surprised.

And the misogyny is becoming so out of hand now, those women I campaigned with must be questioning their involvement. They were anti-austerity grown-ups - not blue-haired, pomo-addled undergrads.

Labour are being endorsed by the likes of Nick Griffin, how is that going down in London?

- the last election's "youthquake" wasn't as significant as we keep being told it was

Indeed. Wasn't there some polling analysis showing that older female voters were in fact just as important?

Labour is much more vulnerable to voter apathy than the Tories. Labour turnout going down is worse for Labour than Tory turnout going down is for the Tories.

I think this is one of the reasons Labour is going hell for leather for the youth vote. But this is a big risk for them - the last election's "youthquake" wasn't as significant as we keep being told it was.

I found this written on Twitter, it appears on a JHB thread.

A good teacher advocates for critical thinking by facilitating questioning and analysis. A good teacher should also use the opportunity to challenge their own thinking and biases. A good teacher does not encourage hive mind buzzwords or patronize those who think differently.

Free speech, thought and a responsible debate aren't supported in the Labour party any more and that why I no longer vote for them. This began with Corbyn and romoaners disrespecting democracy.

What kind of education are Bromentum and the Labour party giving? They encourage totalitarianism.

Yeah the whole Maoist show trial thing was not exactly putting Labour's best foot forward. Especially given that the media was already panicking about the association with Militant, you'd think they'd have the sense not to go full purge quite so publicly. The Momentum base appears to be eating that shit up with a spoon though, so maybe that's the plan, keep them happy and don't worry about anyone else.

Note - I do not think this is a good plan.

Re Conservatives, I think they've also figured out that by dropping self-Id they can position themselves as the "see, look, we're not nutters" party.

Or maybe they're the only ones prepared to listen to the wider public? I see that as a good thing in a political party.

Re Conservatives, I think they've also figured out that by dropping self-Id they can position themselves as the "see, look, we're not nutters" party.

If Corbyn thinks he can win a general election without women then he's clearly not very good at maths.

I know Annie. I doubt I will vote for them.

But I am NEVER going to vote Labour again. Or Lib Dems. Or Scottish fucking Greens because Patrick Harvie is a wee tool.

And in Scotland, the SNP are looking very shaky (not least because of this issue)

So problematic to say the least

As a paid-up Conservative member, I'm glad to see JC's odious game plan is becoming increasingly obvious to Labour's natural supporters.

He frightens the bejesus out of me. And his seemingly benign sidekick, McDonnell, is even more scary. Cuddly granddad figures, they ain't.

What the Conservative Party needs is more centre right members to influence policy. We're an eclectic mix and by no means Alt/far right.

Thing is, I don't trust the Tories either. Their apparent change of heart on this isn't because they are marvellously progressive, and want to protect women's rights, it's more that anything that challenges the gender norms worries their heartlands, and they don't have the analysis to see that trans ideology reinforces the gender norms they love so much, and doesn't challenge them. I think they just see "omg boy in a dress" and freak out.

I won't be voting Tory even on this count.

I always found it odd that the conservatives got the ball rolling on this. It really won't be popular with their core voters It is my belief that they latched onto it in an attempt to replay the 'gay marriage' debate, after getting a reduced majority in the election. It was already partly through as a private members bill and a dead cert.............. No idea why MM and JG were so involved though - heads turned by the pink news presentations? [confused}

If the TRA force me to chose between protecting women's rights and supporting theirs I'll chose women.

Me too. I'd rather not but I will if I have to.

It would make a fabulous Margaret Atwood novel.

These people feel confident to be the real them now. They had to wear a cloak of lies to cover up who they really were before Jeremy made it ok.

The way Labour handled this issue really frightened me.

In particular the interrogations and suspensions and the utter doublethink. Kicking out a woman who wanted to challenge the party on whether it was acting within the law. Jennifer James and Venice Allen's transcripts from the complaints meetings read like dystopian fiction.

Then saying they didn't find calling a woman a cunt on twitter to be bringing the party into disrepute.

I still can't believe that when asked for comment the party did not say it was unacceptable that a person had called for violence against women, who was pictured with a smiling Jenemy Corbyn.

Saying they would consult but not doing so. Elected officers using words like TERF to describe anyone raising questions about the impact of changes when there are horrible, horrible bits of propaganda all over the place normalising violence against someone called that.

I had been wondering about joining but now just feel worried about a party with this sort of approach getting anywhere near power.

Lib dems and Green also horrified me for similar reasons (although not sure how much the grown ups know about it in those two), as has Maria Miller's approach.

Maybe I'm naive. Is politics normally like this?

And here we have Labour sending women into the arms of the Tories.

It's in my interests to vote Tory, financially speaking, but I never have.

But I'm fucked if I'm going to vote away my own rights and safety for arseholes who call me a bigot.

What kind of idiots are in Labour these days, that they are chasing away left leaning educated women for blue haired activists without a coherent thought in their heads?

This will definitely affect how I vote. I want to retain trans rights protecting them against discrimination but I can't in good conscience go along with policies that would put convicted rapists into women's prisons and allow violent mtf trans access to DV shelters. If the TRA force me to chose between protecting women's rights and supporting theirs I'll chose women.

Corbyn has always given off vibes of being indifferent to women's rights and Labour don't actually have a great record of women in power. Even with that, the way they are bullying women on this issue and trying to 'teach us a lesson' has shocked me greatly.

One of Corbyn attack dogs came after me on twitter over a less than wholly supportive tweet I made about Labour, (not on this issue). The tweeter only followed Corbyn and when I looked he went in to attack others in similar ways, tbh I found it a scary experience as I tweet under my real name and only have a small number of followers so I wouldn't have thought it worth going after me and my comment was mild. (I don't want to reveal enough details to make it possible to link this name to my twitter account as the TRA scare me)

I had thought there was not a chance I would vote conservative, but my local Con MP is female and tries to be a decent person, I just hate her politics 🙄. On balance I find the prospect of what will happen to women's rights if the current Labour Party actually got into power so terrifying i can't vote Labour so I'll be voting conservative 😢 (Voting lib dem feels to me like you might as well vote Conservative and they aren't good on this issue either). I don't mean any insult to other Conservative voters btw it's just not my personal political stance