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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What could I have done differently?

81 replies

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 16:55

Hi all! I’ve joined mumsnet specifically to tell a story of something that has recently been resolved and to look for advice as to what to do differently. CAUTION long post

Around a year ago, I was on a packed tube on the way to work when the Oyster card of the woman in front of me dropped to the floor. I picked it up, put my hand on her shoulder to attract her attention (she was wearing headphones) and returned the card. She didn’t say thank you, but hey, London. She got off at the same station as me. I stopped at the bottom of the escalator to help another woman with her pushchair as the she couldn’t find the lift. We made small talk and parted ways at the top of the escalator.

I headed for the ticket barriers but was collared by two members of station staff with a shouting woman. I was in uniform (I’m a nurse) and assumed that they needed help. How wrong I was. It transpired that, according to the woman, I had touched her inappropriately. I was confused. I told the station staff that I had put my hand on her shoulder to attract her attention. They said that the woman didn’t dispute this but it was obviously a sexual advance upon a woman of colour. I was still confused. I was asked for my details, which I provided, all whilst the woman was bellowing that I should be arrested. Colleagues were walking past and hearing this. I then continued to work, shaken to say the least.

Around a week later, two uniformed police appeared at my front door. I let them in and they wanted to discuss the incident. I explained the situation and was met with stern looks. The woman has claimed sexual assault and just because I thought that touching her shoulder was innocent, she didn’t think that it was and her opinion is what mattered.

Some brief background to me. I’m a 41 year old white guy. I’m just over 6 ft tall, have lost the battle with male pattern baldness. I’m also a little overweight (thank you relatives with chocolates!). My husband and I have been together since first year of university. He’s a doctor, British born Chinese. I was adopted at 3 months by two wonderful parents. They were from Trinidad, already had 5 of their own but took me in regardless. I play rugby, sew stupid cushions and love the Lake District.

To continue, the police left shortly after I had explained my background to them. They came back a month later, again explaining that the woman wanted my charged. They would be undertaking further investigation.

I work with the elderly. Part of this involves putting hands on shoulders if they are deaf to attract attention, or to help them from a chair. A kind hand on the shoulder can give confidence back when trying to walk again. I have never thought that I was being inappropriate.

The investigation took around 11 months, and at the end the police decided on no further action. During this time, I had to report this all to my employer. I had to be moved away from patients. I’ve sat in an office for all of this time, pretty much alone.

I’ve posted some of this on other forums and have been met with vitriol. Some have told me that they would break my arm if I touched them without permission. Others have told me that if I can’t see what I’ve done is wrong then I am the worst face of the patriarchy. Others still insist that by picking up the card I was infantilising the woman, again making me an awful person.

Since it has finished, I’ve (nearly) left nursing and the NHS. I’m just finishing my notice period. I don’t want to take the risk again. I am worried about providing personal care, holding someone’s hand whilst they get bad news, hugging a grieving relative. My behaviour around women has changed, too. I tend not to put money into the cashier’s hand when paying for things. I won’t sit anywhere near a lone woman on the night tube.

What I want to know is where do I go from here? Is offering a pregnant woman my seat on the tube demeaning her and making her seem weak? Do I help at a cardiac arrest in the street? I would, you see, be putting the heel of my hand between a woman’s breasts. Where is the boundary? As a man, I feel like I have been painted with a massive brush that says “all men are scum”.

What I want to know is what did I do as an individual that was so wrong? I think that I did what any normal person would have done. Am I wrong?

Opinions welcome!

OP posts:
SonicVersusGynaephobia · 14/04/2018 20:32

It's especially unfortunate that you are doing such an important and thankless job as a nurse in the NHS, which is struggling for nurses as it is, and now you feel like you had to give that up.

It's also very unfortunate that women are now more at risk of dying of cardiac arrest or being hit by a bus.

Bloody woman, eh. Ruining it for all other women with her ridiculous feminism.

Deltonia · 14/04/2018 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thebewilderness · 14/04/2018 20:04

I used to give talks to medical professionals on how to avoid patients assaulting them.
What I would say to you is that there is a difference between tapping someone on the shoulder to get their attention and putting your hand on a person's shoulder to control them.
Tap is fine, putting on hand is not. Stop doing it.

thedancingbear · 14/04/2018 19:53

'have you heard about Barry from accounts? apparently he's been arrested for groping a woman on the tube. he's told HR he only touched her on the shoulder because he was trying to give her oyster card back'

Hands up who believes Barry. I certainly fucking don't.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 14/04/2018 19:21

Blimey, in the attempt to show women as extreme crazies they have absolutely no limits.

Desperation.

BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 19:13

Also that the police took a longer investigation on this shoulder touching incident than they do on many rape cases too.
I'm unsure about the cctv footage which I would hope would have cleared him very quickly.
Perhaps he could lodge a complaint with the police?

No posters have responded yet with "yes, this was sexual assault".
Most have said no it isn't. Some have said they don't like being touched without consent, but haven't claimed they would press charges for such an incident as he describes.
Marcus seems reluctant to engage with some of our questions or to acknowledge that his astonishing experience might need a little corroborating evidence to reassure posters of his genuineness.
I'm sure he doesn't expect women to automatically trust every new poster with an extraordinary claim when it's been explained how we are frequently trolled here.

sillage · 14/04/2018 19:09

I would also like to see the reactions from the other forums where you posted this story, it's hard to form an opinion without seeing what they said to you that made you feel like an scumbag.

yetanothertranswoman · 14/04/2018 19:06

I would love to know what forum you were on where you got told you were inappropriate to touch a women on the shoulder to tell her she had lost her Oyster card.

Doofenschmirtz · 14/04/2018 19:06

"What I want to know is what did I do as an individual that was so wrong?"

Didn't the police explain this to you? Confused

Elendon · 14/04/2018 18:57

Marcus what you describe is saying that a woman who is touched on the tube automatically goes hysterical and gets the police involved.

Is this what you are saying?

whathaveiforgottentoday · 14/04/2018 18:33

I wouldn't have a problem at all with the scenario you've described.
Touching some bodies shoulder to attract their attention is perfectly rational behaviour.

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 14/04/2018 18:32

wtglwgh

CardsforKittens · 14/04/2018 18:31

Well, that's interesting. I didn't intend to be critical, but to explain my feelings about being touched by men, as AssassinatedBeauty pointed out. I was uncomfortable with your example of CPR because of your mention of breasts (not something that would cross my mind if I had to do it myself).

And you ignored my point that we can't tell by looking whether you're a pervert. I tell you what, though: men who don't get it are men I can't trust.

GenderApostate · 14/04/2018 18:31

How very, very odd.
Almost unbelievable, some might say.

0phelia · 14/04/2018 18:24

It's completely and utterly absurd that someone took someone to court for touching them on the shoulders. I can't fathom the anxiety that would be involved for all involved.
Of course a man should give up a seat for a pregnant lady.
Of course if you are qualified you should touch someone else to perform CPR.
Yes it's completely appropriate to touch someone on the shoulder if they dropped their Oyster card to give it back to them.

QuentinSummers · 14/04/2018 18:22

Bizarre Grin

AssassinatedBeauty · 14/04/2018 18:17

You're asking for opinions and yet you're chippy about the ones you've got that you don't like!

CardsForKittens response was simply explaining how she feels, it wasn't at all critical of you. Interesting that you found it offensive.

I don't really understand what you're asking for advice about. Don't touch women (or men) if you don't have to. Give CPR if you can, but don't if you don't want to, that's entirely up to you. Offer a pregnant woman a seat if you want to, but don't be weird if she says no.

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 18:11

I have now reported the thread and it will hopefully be removed soon. I will look elsewhere for support. Thank you.

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 18:10

"Opinions welcome!
No, not those opinions..."

SecretTerf · 14/04/2018 18:06

Strange men, that should say

SecretTerf · 14/04/2018 18:05

Marcus, do you understand why many, perhaps most, women don’t like strange Jen suddenly touching them?

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 18:03

And with that, I am no longer involving myself in this post. I am not receiving advice from some people, just backhanded criticism (cardsforkittens) and unhelpful remarks (queenofquacks). I dont need this when all I am trying to do is understand from what is supposed to be a learned forum of women. To jump to such behaviour so quickly is shocking. Thank you those who commented positively. I will be sure to pass your opinions to the rest of the scum.

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 18:03

Marcus we get a large number of trolls joining the forum purely to bait feminists, often with outlandish claims.
If one's first post on a forum like this is of the 'beggars belief" variety other posters are understandibly cautious.
As you can see I've taken you at face value and responded accordingly but I do think it would help your position as a brand new poster if you could evidence some of the unusual responses you've received on the other forums.

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 17:58

Hi there. To clarify I would never offer this kind of physical contact unsolicited. Regarding the cardiac arrest situation it’s not so extreme but are you genuinely saying that you would rather be left to die than receive help from me? In addition, I have already taken your advice. If you drop something, I will not tap you on the shoulder to draw your attention to it. About to walk in front of a bus? Same thing.

OP posts:
Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 17:54

Hi! I asked here as I would get to hear a response that, according to some media outlets, is an authority feminist and women’s issues. I had an issue relating to women and asked for help. How is that baffling?

OP posts: