TRA infiltration

My experience of the 'T' word is that in some circles, possibly now only in the past, it was used as a term of affection for and by some cross-dressers and drag queens in the kinds of circles and clubs that these people frequented and then usually only by 'insiders'. This was (OMG I'm getting old) over 20 years ago before the modern era and the new ways of being trans. I don't think it was ever appropriate to use the word to describe transsexuals who wanted to 'blend in' in wider publics.

The word is and has been used on MN and although I think innocently (someone complaining about their 'T' feet) like some other words it's politically sensitive and should not be used. There was even a thread edited on the Litter Tray a while back because the word p*y was used to describe a cat having a temper tantrum. There are just some words best avoided because either they cause hurt to some or because they get in the way of reasoned debate.

I actually saw "because people are nicer to women" listed as one of someone's reasons for wanting to transition once. Oh you sweet (bloody stupid) summer child...

If I'm going to be horribly honest, I do find it infuriating when TS or TIM people speak about the slurs people call them as though it's something that women wouldn't know anything about. It always makes me want to say...

"Welcome to gender. What did you think it would be? A free and liberating expression of your inner identity? Well, no, sorry. It's a socially imposed power system where you've just chosen the no power option and men feel free to abuse you. We did try to tell you but you didn't listen."

(Not you personally or what you've said here, yetanother, just in general.)

I only report obvious trolling, and even that rarely.

You're reading stuff into my posts that wasn't there.
I didn't say "trans people just dislike it" I said it was enough for me to know that it was rejected as a slur by some trans people for me to reject it too.

I do however know transwomen who use it about themselves and others with affection and consent.
This may be a reclaiming, much as some women ironically call themselves terfs knowing full well that they may be neither radfem, nor exclusionary of transpeople.
And this in no way grants me free rein to use it about others. So I don't.

Hellsbells yetanothertranswoman I'm trying to agree with you.

I also haven't seen the t* used on Mumsnet in feminism. I need to be able to state that truthfully and be believed that it is the truth, not minimising.

I rarely report any posts. This includes those using cis, terf or other slurs.
Part of the challenge feminist posters are facing is that many of us refuse to report and shut down the speech of others whilst knowing we are subject to a different standard.

I am merely suggesting that that word is used a lot out there when you suggested it wasn't.

No I did not suggest it wasn't used, any more than you suggested there were no slurs against women.
We have a speck and mote problem here which I recognized and is the reason I will not be speaking with you again.

• Not an affectionate word - that's not what's been said.

But it does seem to be minimised.

and I too have not seen the slur for trans people that yet is referring to used much at all here

It has been.I have seen it. I have reported it.

MN are very good at deleting threads and posts with it in.

There does seem to have been minimising of it on here. People saying trans people just dislike it, it's a word trans people use themselves, rarely seen, an affectionate word...

Can I just point out that women, regardless of what they say online (and I too have not seen the slur for trans people that yet is referring to used much at all here), are not responsible for men kicking trans women in the head?

When you are trans women/girl, you get to see a lot of slurs online.

And in real life.

All the time.

All our fucking lives, it's relentless.

Frigid, whore, witch, bitch, butch, cunt, slag, cock-tease, dog, slag, crone, hag, slut, prossie, battle-axe, bossy,

"give us a smile love"

I took a break because I saw red when you implied that transgender people get to see a lot of slurs, unlike a woman who

I didn't say anything about women. If you took what I said as an implication that women didn't get to see any slurs, then you are seeing an implication that wasn't there.

I rarely see transgender identified males being called the T slur because I do not hang out online or in Newtonian space in places or with people where that behavior would be considered acceptable

It's not that hard to see transwomen being called a lot of slurs and worse - it does happen in online places where feminists are found.

I simply stated what my experience online was with regard to that particular slur. Not that it didn't happen. Then you snapped at BB.

I took a break because I saw red when you implied that transgender people get to see a lot of slurs, unlike a woman who I guess is supposed to be so used to being denigrated in every way every day for the past seventy years that the things we are called are not even considered slurs any more.
I rarely see transgender identified males being called the T slur because I do not hang out online or in Newtonian space in places or with people where that behavior would be considered acceptable.

I felt myself being unreasonably annoyed when you interrogated me earlier. If you consider your behavior appropriate then I withdraw my suggestion that a break would do you any good.

You are being very antagonistic and I wonder if you might need to take a break

I am merely suggesting that that word is used a lot out there when you suggested it wasn't.

yetanothertranswoman
You are being very antagonistic and I wonder if you might need to take a break. I just had a short one and feel better for it.

I'm not arguing with that.

Much as Maria M was the subject of getting punched and kicked and called fucking TERF.

Both acts are despicable and deserve unequivocal condemnation.

I've heard other people use the t- word for themselves and they use it with affection - my point was that I don't use it because I do believe it to be a slur. It is used by some to dehumanise and to be derogatory and I think that is more than sufficient for it to be rejected from use.

I consider the t word to be a slur simply because the people who get called this dislike it

Being kicked in the head and being called a 'fucking tranny' certainly is more than merely disliking it.

At some point we should have a chat about what and who decides what constitutes a slur.

I consider the t word to be a slur simply because the people who get called this dislike it and there are more polite terms which are still factual that I can use instead. I don't use it, even in the face of being the recipient of slurs myself.

But there are other factors that play into what makes something a slur and those rules should be consistent.

If the rule is "I don't like it when I am called that" then this should apply to all - but what if that word is happily accepted as an accurate and inoffensive term by most people using it about themselves?

If it is "there are negative and unwarranted associations with this word" then again, the courtesy should apply to all, and the recipient gets to decide.

I hear "It's purely factual and descriptive" used to justify cis and terf often, when it can be demonstrated that neither cis nor terf are factual or descriptive, and are used in a way to dehumanise.

When a certain labour representative addressed me with the sentiment "Bye, TERF" I have no doubt that he intended it as a slur despite his protestations.

Yes of course. Women wouldn't know anything about that

Why? I am sure there are women and men who are perfectly capable of using that slur and who can also see that slur when online.

Yes of course. Women wouldn't know anything about that.

With a few rare exceptions, I have only ever seen transgender identified people use that term on the internet

I have seen that word used by plenty of people online who are NOT transgender. I have seen it used on MN and elsewhere - it does get deleted on here but it's most definitely used on MN by some people and it is most definitely used as a slur elsewhere on the internet.

When you are trans, you get to see a lot of slurs online.

So it looks like a collection of posts containing the word ty.
With a few rare exceptions, I have only ever seen transgender identified people use that term on the internet.

I find it very odd that they blanked out the usernames, even the daily mail do not do that. Leads me to believe somethings up tbh

The women who run MN must be exceptionally bright: they have navigated a very difficult few years on trans issues with vastly more success than any other media. I don't doubt they will continue to be able to do it.

The only thing that could stop them is an actual criminal charge or a successful civil suit.

So all the women who recommend ensuring that doesn't happen are bang on.

I hate my tone on here: I'm not really a twat but I sound like one. I think all you MN feminists are amazing.

I mean it obviously proves there is a huge increase in reports going on here terfragette69

On the politics board there was a known poster who would link to his own blog rather a lot, and eventually got banned for that but came back with a new username and was around for over a year before doing the same thing again and being banned again after being reported. Things like that are only ever really spotted by MNHQ after it's been reported.

It looks like feminist posters are just being reported constantly for anything.