Article on Maria Maclachlan Court case

James Kirkup in Spectator,

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/if-mumsnet-can-stand-up-for-free-speech-why-cant-mps/

Now, some people may think such warnings are overblown, that the idea of women, in an age of online communication, being silenced is an exaggeration. They should have a look at this court case, where Tara Wolf, a 26-year-old transwoman was convicted of assaulting 61-year-old feminist Maria Maclachlan. During the case, the judge admonished Ms Maclachlan for referring to Wolf as “he”. Ms Maclachlan said that she used male pronouns for Wolf because she considers Wolf to be biologically and legally male. Nonetheless, the judge instructed her to use female pronouns because Wolf “wished to be referred to as a woman”. Ms Maclachlan does not believe Wolf is a woman, but was effectively instructed to say things in court that she did not believe were true.

I’ll repeat that. A woman who was assaulted by a person she considers to be male was told by the judge hearing the case to refer to that person as female – out of respect for her attacker’s feelings. That is the extent to which the enforced norms of the transgender debate can affect a person’s ability to express themselves as they wish

Answering my own question, it's on Justgiving. It must be a new one, had £55 in it earlier today; there was more in the previous account. Also, not a lawyer, but I was under the impression that you have to use the money you collect for the stated purpose. So if, hypothetically, someone wanted to transition m2f and they had a crowdfunder to help them achieve that aim, they would not be able to use that money for any other purpose unless they contacted each donor and OK'd it with them. Is that right, any lawyers?

That's the guy in the ponytail who threatened the girl TRA

That's the most pathetic thing of all, young women sucked into the delusion and fighting the cause, feeling all empowered no doubt.

NotTerf

That's the guy in the ponytail who threatened the girl TRA

Is that a new one? There last one was up to about £500 iirc.

Artemis which platform is that on please?

Everyone seen this?

I know mumsnetters will all give freely.

Yes, a letter is being sent by a group of women and men, to the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office.

It asks if it is now law that female victims of male violence must perjure themselves by calling the defendant "she" if he turns up wearing lippy.

To add your name (privately) to the letter DM @cattdeskatgmail or email [email protected]

Just to reassure everyone, names are being kept strictly secret and will only ever be used on the letter to the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office.

So far almost 200 people have signed, in just two days.

The female victim of an assault by three males is being told they asked for it by a sitting judge. This is a level of bias I assume he brings to all his decisions regarding male violence.

Yes.

Sorry I don't know why I put 'email.her'

You can add your name to Bella Bailey's letter; email her or send her a DM on twitter

CATT group is writing to the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office asking if it is now law that female victims of male violence must perjure themselves by calling the defendant "she" if he turns up wearing lippy. To add your name (privately) to our letter DM @cattdeskatgmail

twitter.com/cattdeskatgmail/status/985245094067523585?s=19

This is the other frightening aspect to me: The judge didn't simply refuse compensation because of the pronouns, he also said "However, Judge Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, saying: "Compensation would not be appropriate, particularly due to the unhelpful way in which the victim was present [at the protest] and the way she was filming.

The female victim of an assault by three males is being told they asked for it by a sitting judge. This is a level of bias I assume he brings to all his decisions regarding male violence.

What PencilsInSpace said.

Maria did nothing wrong, and I am very not okay with the statement that a victim of assault being "unhelpful" is some kind of mitigating factor.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain
I really do think a whole lot of this is attributable to the sorry state of mh services in this country.

Yes!

crispbuttyfan - I have seen Maria approach the group to film them

People were filming from both sides, bystanders were also filming. If you're with a crowd of people shouting slogans and waving placards at Speakers Corner there must surely be a reasonable expectation that someone might take a photo or video. I can't think of a more public venue, can you?

Maybe they should have gone there at 3.30 on a Tuesday morning if they wanted to shout and wave placards in relative privacy.

Maria did nothing wrong.

I have also seen her behaviour on a trans group page earlier in the day.

I saw that too. Maria screenshotted the conversations (or 'behaviour' as you term it) here.

Maria did nothing wrong.

The judge didn't simply refuse compensation because of the pronouns, he also said "However, Judge Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, saying: "Compensation would not be appropriate, particularly due to the unhelpful way in which the victim was present [at the protest] and the way she was filming.

We've already talked about the filming and the fact this wasn't a protest. This leaves us with:

'particularly due to the unhelpful way in which the victim was present'

Are you honestly OK with this as a statement about any assault victim?

I believe being present when the assault happens is a common factor for all assault victims. How unhelpful are they? How convenient for assailants that they can count the unhelpful presence of their victim as a mitigating factor!

Maria did nothing wrong.

"She was asked at different stages not to film but continued to do so."

Maria has stated Not one of them asked me not to film or raised any objection whatsoever to the fact that I was doing so.

I believe her because I was there. I saw lots of people from both sides filming as well as 'innocent bystanders'. Who do you suppose filmed ?

Maria did nothing wrong.

If you disagree, please spell out exactly what you think she did wrong and why it was wrong.

I don't think it's an enormous coincidence that the Tories who want to sell the NHS also want to replace access to necessary mental health services and physical surgeries with an online form. That they're being applauded by supposed lefties is astonishing.

I certainly think that's part of it, Tallulah.

I think a lot of people who are used for the dirty end of transactivism are quite vulnerable themselves. History of mental health problems, never had a paying job, not in education, no home, no family support. From a quick scan of social media these last couple of months, I've noted that certainly some of them say that they have autism. Which I am not disputing.

Also if you truly believe that you can become the other sex (and thus escape all the negative stuff in your life as you might see it) then you are susceptible to being manipulated by people who have their own agenda but don't want to risk prison themselves.

And you can see how people can become enraged when their belief that they can become another sex is challenged, because they've pinned absolutely everything on that belief.

I really do think a whole lot of this is attributable to the sorry state of mh services in this country.

BB I know. I'm a ludicrous libran. That's what I get for believing in myths. and the fact at least 7% of the planet's population is sociopathic is fucking terrifying.

Crisp, we get a lot of hit and runners. You are still here. I am Mouth by the way, had to change email address as a new solid state hard drive meant I lost some passwords.

Boundaries. I was asking you if you felt we had any respect for your POV or not. I realise you may not want to feel coerced into answering this. Coercion is something is unacceptable to me. Me asking you directly if you felt we were willing to talk could seem coercive and passive aggressive.

I think of myself as empathetic but my empathy ran out for a man who serially stalks women, threatens violence, plans violence, commits violence, crows about his violent acts and shows zero remorse.

I actively want such men criminalised and my empathy is reserved for any women he targets for his hatred next.

I don't think he will suffer consequences for this crime he committed. I think he has win a band of women-hating supporters who will celebrate his 'victory' with him.

Someone earlier did say that the fines are based on income, so it's proportionate to the fact that TW is unwaged and living in a squat.

I noticed the banners outside the court were from a squatter group. So not only is TW experiencing a behavioural disorder and dysphoria, TW is also living rough with no fixed abode.

Just stating facts.

TW is now criminalised which is a downward spiral in terms of a future, so I, as an empath do recognise the impact on TW. I also met Maria in a pub and bought her a drink for anyone about to flame me.

It wasn't a protest. It was a meeting point to hand out, in secret, the postcode of the venue.

The organisers had to discern who was a meeting participant, and who was a transactivist, and secretly give the meeting participants a piece of paper with the postcode on it.

Because, all day, transactivists had phoned every possible venue within a mile of speakers corner, lying to whoever answered the phone in order to find out where the meeting was to be held, so they could get it shut down.

The lengths that women had to go to to meet, never mind protest, was ludicrous.

the unhelpful way in which the victim was present [at the protest] and the way she was filming.

What the...?!?! She wasn't 'present at the protest'. Her attacker was protesting the fact that a group of women wanted to have a meeting about something that concerned them.

Trousers, I didn't really get what you were trying to say there?