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Original poster

Urgent! Sign our open letter to Girlguiding UK

38 replies

AgnesBadenPowell · 11/04/2018 19:08

IMPORTANT! Deadline 9pm Thursday

We (me and the awesome team at Fair Play For Women and some others) will be publishing an open letter to Girlguiding in a national newspaper this Sunday. We set out the safeguarding concerns with their trans policy that allows a male child who identifies as a girl to share sleeping, dressing and washing facilities with girls, and that parents are not allowed to know. We also highlight that Females who identify as boys are expected to leave, disproportionately impacting lesbian girls.

We are now asking for our supporters to sign the open letter. I obviously need your name - you can PM me with your name, and indicate whether you are a parent, Leader, former member, grandparent, aunty, concerned member of the public etc. OR you can complete the online form here:

fairplayforwomen.com/add-your-name/

We can’t publish the full text of the letter but all the issues are summarised in this factsheet and can be seen in more detail this report.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/FPFWGirlguidess_factsheet.pdf

https://fairplayforwomen.com/guide-leaders-call-for-halt/

Spread the word and the link and lets get as many signatures as possible. Girlguiding has made a big misstep with this policy. As a Leader, I don't do this lightly. It's not my intention to embarrass Girlguiding but they MUST listen to our concerns about this policy - concerns shared by legal and child protection experts as well as parents and leaders.

You can read about the Girlguiding policy question here (and click through to the specific guidance on residentials): www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

Girlguiding's most recent statement on this issue can be read here: www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/news/coverage-of-equality-diversity-policy/

OP posts:
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Bookrat · 12/04/2018 17:30

Thank you for taking the initiative. Signed.

YogaDrone · 12/04/2018 10:26

DP and I have both signed. Also retweeted for you Agnes. I think you write positively, clearly, objectively and have a very obvious love of Guiding and the girls within your association. Good luck Flowers

R0wantrees · 12/04/2018 09:32

signed and have shared the information with friends who have been involved with Guides in the past.

qumquat · 12/04/2018 07:29

Signed

Wombman · 12/04/2018 02:57

Signed

thebewilderness · 12/04/2018 02:46

I signed earlier today with my name. There is nothing anyone can do to me that I care about.

flowersonthepiano · 12/04/2018 02:08

Signed.

Trumpdump · 12/04/2018 01:28

This is amazing! Thank you! Smile

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 12/04/2018 01:10

Done, thank you.

UpstartCrow · 12/04/2018 00:09

Signed and shared, thank you for doing this.

AnitaLovesVictor · 12/04/2018 00:09

Thank you, Agnes - thank you for doing this. We must take a stand. Thanks

Original poster
AgnesBadenPowell · 12/04/2018 00:07

Thank you all. We have hundreds of signatures now. I really appreciate each of you doing this Thanks

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 11/04/2018 23:53

Signed.

Janie143 · 11/04/2018 23:41

Signed I hope this has an impact Excellent work CakeFlowers

AnitaLovesVictor · 11/04/2018 22:34

SIgned. They can't come after me, I'm a housewife/mother.

Cuntysnark · 11/04/2018 22:20

Signed.

FlorenceLyons · 11/04/2018 22:02

Signed.

Original poster
AgnesBadenPowell · 11/04/2018 22:00

Thanks all for signing. Do feel free to share the link.

I've got another thread running in AIBU for traffic and, as expected, not everyone agrees with my position. I made this comment in response and I thought I'd share it here as it sets out why I'm doing this - and it's not because I have a grudge with GGUK!

I understand. It's tricky because the editor doesn't want the content published before Sunday so I can't put it here. If you've read the Fair Play For Women articles then they explain our concerns although the letter is briefer.

I would add that we are asking for the policy to be suspended pending a review. No one was consulted on the change to policy - no girls, leaders, or parents.

GG was already inclusive in that girls of any gender identity could be members and trans women with a gender recognition certificate could make the Promise and become leaders (men did and still can be volunteers but only in non-Promise making support roles - leadership is female only)

This policy a is a massive step backwards in that it excludes a whole group of girls, who should be free to join us / stay with us if that's what they want.

GG, an organisation that has fought gender stereotypes for over a century, is now basing its membership criteria on those very stereotypes.

GG was a single sex organisation. By extending membership to boys who identify as girls, they now discriminate against boys who don't identify as girls.

The policy needs to be reviewed by independent experts in equality law, data protection and child protection. The membership needs to be consulted.

If the outcome of the process is that the policy stays as it is, then that's fine. This isn't about "winning" or scoring points. I have no grudge to bear against GG. I just want to be sure that the policy is the best it can be.

OP posts:
Waddlelikeapenguin · 11/04/2018 21:30

Done.
Great work Flowers

DontCisgenderMe · 11/04/2018 21:20

Signed.

I have sons, not daughters, but loved my time in the Brownies and Guides. Brownie camp was my first time away from home, and there is no way my mother would have let me go if she had thought that I would be sharing a tent with a boy. It beggars belief that GG think that parents should not be informed!

GirlScout72 · 11/04/2018 20:27

Mummybear

95% of girls who come out as transgender are same sex attracted. 80% of all kids identifying as transgender desist. Polly Carmichael, lead clinician at the Tavistock gender clinic says herself that the most likely outcome for a kid they see is to end up LBG and not T.

Most kids being referred to gender clinics are girls. If you drill down into the suicide stats, most of the kids trying to harm themselves are girls.

We have an urgent need to address what is happening to girls. This is GG's raison d'etre.

And irony is they were ALREADY transgender inclusive. Transwomen with a GRC have always been able to join, and as a single sex organisation they were already obliged to include girls who identify as boys (cos they are still female). They didn't need to change a thing. They could have been at the forefront of fighting for girls to be themselves, rather than saying 'who I am does not fit sexist stereotypes, therefore I am a boy'.

I'm hoping the next big story is WHO are the snake oil salesman that advised them, and how much money did GG pay them for the privilege of being made a mockery of on a national scale.

GirlScout72 · 11/04/2018 20:17

Signed.

Also, I saw in another group where FPFW posted that you can you use your initial and surname e.g. J Bloggs, mum, parent of Brownie, former Guide if you want. I suspect there'll be hundreds of names, what they gonna do, doxx us all? I very much doubt it. I had quick mooch around twitter, apart from one or two clearly not very mentally well people, there has been surprisingly little negativity about this, as I suspect the original long report, which painstakingly pulled apart the legal blunders, shut them all up.

Agnes, it just shines out of everything you write that you love this organisation, I don't think anyone thinks you are trying to harm or embarrass GG. However, they are either extremely naive and trusting the say so of a dodgy trans lobby group, or have had an outbreak of arrogance. I'd like to think it's not the latter, that's they've just got into a pickle and each move they make makes it worse, it needs to come to this as they need a wake up call.

As the knock on effects of pushing them to review has implications for all youth groups (many of whom are already acting as if the protected characteristic of gender reassignments confers rights to a boy as a female - it doesn't - and this is what they are being told by lobbyists) then something needs to be done to make people sit up and take notice.

Oh btw my mum, dad, and sis in law signed it too.

mummybear701 · 11/04/2018 20:12

Agnes if its true I do sympathise on the potential to mistake lesbian girls for transgender, problem is they are distinct but both involve gender non-conformity.

I see a debate to be had on reducing it to gender stereotypes we are working to remove, but are physical and biological differences enough in themselves to need a separate girls group? This may be how GG come back at this, remembering it was founded when there was a much bigger social and cultural difference between boys and girls than today.

I don't criticise you for speaking out as its a debate that needs to be had.

ReluctantCamper · 11/04/2018 20:04

when they go low we go high.

Sorry, new FWR code for 'try not to rise to the bait'

mummybear701 seems to be spoiling for a fight. I would hate for her to get one and it to be used against what you're doing.

Original poster
AgnesBadenPowell · 11/04/2018 20:01

@ReluctantCamper eh? Confused

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