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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Politics is not for women

58 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/04/2018 12:56

In 2018, this is how I feel.

Its a feeling that isn't going away.

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OlennasWimple · 17/04/2018 02:29

I'd agree that fewer women of that age group are involved in politics than before, though this is masked by the current crop of younger, female MPs.

TurningWood · 16/04/2018 12:22

I am in the group of women your figures show as underrepresented. I turned down a winnable seat for many reasons.

I am glad I didn't stand, I would have been trapped like many labour Stockholm enablers.

Melamin · 16/04/2018 11:18

My county council 22/75
District council 12/41
Parish council 1/15 - mostly volunteers as they never have enough candidates for an election.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2018 10:54

So I decided to see if I could find out some stuff about representation of women in local politics, particularly those with children (who will perhaps be overrepresented on MN).

First here's a little background information on demographics to put this into context: Roughly 34% of the population are aged 18 to 45. (I've only chosen age 45 because of the documentation I've found). So that makes about 17% of the population women who are aged 20 to 50 [source: 2011 census]. Remember that number. (Also for reference approximately 18% of population were over 65).

Anyway there have been a number of census of local authority councillors. They were in 1997, 2001, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2013.

So it seems that in theory we are rather over due for another one. (and we might have reason to question why there hasn't been one for 5 years and what changes might have happened since then).

Anyway the last one from 2013 can be found here:
www.nfer.ac.uk/publications/LGCL01/

The very first thing I spotted is that they used gender not sex in doing this research. So biology was already erased in local politics some 5 years ago.

One of the key findings was that:
Councillors’ gender profile, ethnic origin, disability status and caring responsibilities have changed very little between 2001 and 2013. In 2013, 67.3 per cent of councillors were male.

So already we have an overrepresentation of men.

Delving a little deeper there are some interesting figures in here:
Councillors had an average age of 60.2 in 2013, similar to 59.7 recorded in 2010, and up a little from 57.8 in 2004. Around one in eight (12.0 per cent) were aged under-45, a proportion which has changed little since 2004. The proportion aged 70 or over has increased from 13.8 per cent to 22.2 per cent over this period

and

The proportions of retired councillors have increased slightly year-on-year from 36.8 per cent in 2001 to 46.6 per cent in 2013. At the same time, the proportion of councillors in full-time employment has decreased steadily from 27.2 per cent in 2001 to 19.2 per cent this year, whereas there has been very little variation in the proportions of councillors who are self-employed or work part-time between 2001 and 2013

So working age people in particular have decreased their participation in local politics (see the little graph). And people under 45 have always been consistently under represented (12% of councillors in 2013) whilst those who are retired seem to be increasingly over represented. And women in general are particularly underrepresented (33% of councillors in 2013). REMEMBER: 17% of the population were women aged 20 - 45.

It doesn't take a genius to work out from this, that yes women aged 20 - 45 are one of the least and most under represented groups out there. This isn't a surprise in the slightest to me and I'm sure it won't be to most of you.

Of course conflating gender and sex won't help. If that trend of people who are working age participating in politics has continued since 2013 combined with efforts to force women into work and economic pressures to work more hours, I also think that there is a strong possibility that this lack of representation has got worse not better.

Whilst political parties all go on about how they have got more female MPs than ever before, and how we have a female PM, perhaps given cuts to services tend to happen and be prioritised at a local level, then perhaps it really is worth reflected on just HOW much women in this age group are being underrepresented, and then reflect on what political parties are doing to rectify this.

Given the recent treatment of women in relation to the trans debate and attitudes by political parties to MN and AWS, this really needs to be flagged up. It looks particularly poor.

It also does much to explain why polling like YouGov consistently is showing around 20% of women currently unsure of who to vote for which is considerably higher than it is for men.

I do think a lot more has to be done to involve women (and more generally people who are from poorer backgrounds) at lower levels, as I suspect the trend is going in wrong direction rather than improving.

I am going to try and think of how I can make some noise about this on MN and draw attention to it, and do a bit of brainstorming because clearly every political party out there really doesn't give a shit about this.

Politics is not for women
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TurningWood · 15/04/2018 16:45

The system is win/lose and one big competition. Beat others to become a candidate. Beat other parties to become an elected official. Beat other elected officials to become leader.

Too many with personality disorders in all positions of trust and power.

Any decent person is either removed as competition or they become corrupt to survive.

Currently the Labour party seems to me full of Stockholm syndrome elected officials trying to survive the tin hat brigade quoting Infowars and being cheered on by Nick Griffin, including their leader.

It's not attractive to many women, who would rather do something enjoyable instead.

SpartacusTheCat · 15/04/2018 08:47

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RedToothBrush · 15/04/2018 08:30

Indeed Katara. Where women invest time is precisely where traditional politics fails them. They can not both support these things AND be heavily involved in party politics when they are already stretched.

I am aware that many women know this.

But others - particularly young white middle class women who are childless - do not.

In saying biology is not important, all these precious things are even more at risk. And politicians are either blind to it or don't care (or worse, seek it).

For the most part I think it the former largely out of incompetence and ignorance. But I do think many also fall into the later if only out of self interest in their own political careers. And there a few who are very much aware of it and do act out of some sort of malice.

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Katara · 15/04/2018 08:21

My questions are badly formulated due to child needing attention, they need a bit more thought

Katara · 15/04/2018 08:20

The irony of what you say, red , is that one of the platforms on which women fought for suffrage was ‘women’s issues’ - proper maternity care, infant care, support for women as mothers = biology. Also in the 1920s, access to contraception and even then, abortion if needed. Again biology.

Women were active at a grassroots level, also many of the gains of the 1970s and 1980s were achieved by women acting collectively at grassroots (childcare, refuges, activism against domestic violence, family planning, abortion = factors which are biology specific; domestic violence is a sex-based crime)

Women still do provide services supporting other women, often in charities and organisations on shoe string budgets. The support and care my DC and I have needed as been provided overwhelmingly by women who have drawn on their professional networks. These women are working extremely hard. It may not be high politics, and these are also the services which have been badly hit by cuts.

Historically speaking, the people who have been able to organise are men (time, money, and male privilege); middle class women who are educated and have more time and younger, single people. That is not to say other groups cannot and don’t organise, just that they have more barriers to overcome. That is why MN is a valuable space for discussion, it is also why it is an issue of biology which is galvanising women’s activism. The questions to ask from history are:

Why is this seen as so dangerous?
How do women overcome the barriers to activism?
What makes a difference in terms of women’s concerns being listened to?
How, if at all, is this issue different (the key point is that it fundamentally tries to remove the arguments of biology)

I need to go, but I think these are important questions.

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2018 07:53

I find that MN is one of the only channels I can be political and potentially have any effect because of social structure, political structure and the reality of my life.

Even if its just about awareness and providing an alternative view point which isn't immediately put in the bin because its simply a lone voice in a room of people who don't share the same priorities. You can chip away for years on a subject and make a difference here. Even if its just supporting people feeling abandoned by society and politicians for whatever reason.

That's important even if no one ever really sees it as a big thing or massive achievement. The stuff on post natal care has sprung from exactly that type of thing. It would never go anywhere within the confines of a political party. I really do applaud MN for going for it. That political parties are not seeing this gap and recognising this and doing something about it, is poor.

The current political climate makes it very difficult for isolated voices to get heard. There isn't much listening to voices outside the echo chambers of traditional political power. Even with the new influence of twitter and facebook, i'm not sure everyone is being involved in the massive political changes currently happening.

Its been a criticism for some years now. If you are not highly involved and in the right circle, you have very little opportunity or ability to be heard. Not everyone can do that.

Work to think of alternative channels of communication and involvement is much needed.

We currently have a dynamic where it's about political parties speaking at the public rather than listening better. Divergence from the official sanctioned line or even the unofficial line, isn't tolerated. And you have to be on script with the latest political outrage, rather than talking about something from an alternative approach. This has got worse, not better in recent years.

This is MNs power, and what attracts a lot of users to the site. The trivial stuff is important too, but I do believe the glue that keeps it sharpest is this aspect of the site; the constant low level political buzz on even the mundane that doesn't have life elsewhere. You don't have to be a crazy headed activist to be involved or contribute something meaningful and worthwhile and you don't have to know it all to get a point heard.

I don't know. I just find what is missing from politics noteworthy by its absence.

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RedToothBrush · 15/04/2018 07:51

It's not awful.

Its bloody outrageous. Especially since numerous political parties are involved.

It isn't lost on me as to why TRAs seem to be over represented in political parties even if they don't have MPs (why are lesbians seemingly so underrepresented?). Their identity is their entire life and activism is everything.

Certainly I know that I'm limited in what I could do in terms of political involvement because of child care and family commitments. I can't dedicate my life to it. Even if I was dedicated and passionate. Going to conference or taking up a local post is totally out of the question. Any volunteering end up being related to kids. Austerity and a baby boom would compound any such effect. And hence why student politics would be particularly influential too.

I wonder if that is the very thing which makes the difference in terms of influence - the thing that women on MN are concerned about - biological barriers and the social issues they create. Whilst there might be more women interested and involved in politics than there has been in the past, just how influential and involved at grassroots level are they? Its not just party membership, its the level of involvement within that. Particularly women with children of school age or younger. We only really hear of the number of female MPs and whilst that is important its only a tiny facet of political representation.

I wonder if this is something that has been looked and studied at by anyone. My guess is that its an area that isn't valued and is therefore overlooked. Any since we don't know this information, we can't fight back with it.

I wonder if MN would be interested in exploring this as an issue at some point. In terms of any campaigning they do on other subjects, its relevant because its possibly why there is a need for MN to campaign in those areas in the first place, because these issues don't have as many champions within politics - at all levels - as they deserve.

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RedToothBrush · 15/04/2018 07:51

Two posts I made this morning on the site stuff thread. Thought worth reposting here.

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TurningWood · 13/04/2018 13:06

Red I appreciate your insights too.

Xxfemale · 12/04/2018 21:11

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Xxfemale · 12/04/2018 21:10

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thebewilderness · 11/04/2018 23:56

There was a discussion some weeks ago about spoiled ballots and they are noted and even made available to read, or so one of the poll watchers said.

LadyGrey18 · 11/04/2018 23:38

Do 'none' votes get counted? I've seen spoilt ballots recorded but can't remember seeing a separate number for ballots where the voter has written 'none of the above'. Is it not all the same?

I've seen the list of candidates in my ward for next month's election and it's just all the usual, main parties - I was hoping for an independent candidate or a smaller or newer party to vote for. I'm not sure what I'm going to do at the moment.

momszilla · 10/04/2018 20:41

NONE of the ABOVE .
..this is exactly how I'm voting it will be counted ...As a NO vote Protest votes - clarity and number
To establish a right to say 'no' in UK elections

  1. your protest vote must be clear, and
  2. the number of protest votes must multiply.

Ensure your protest vote is clear

  • Don't put a cross (or tick) anywhere.
  • Don't write anything else which could identify you, or create any uncertainty or excuse.
  • Just put a single line through all the boxes

Write NONE across the ballot paper, so that your intention is clear beyond dispute.

It will then be indefensible to classify it as 'voter's intention uncertain

Politics is not for women
MsMcWoodle · 10/04/2018 11:39

Red Just seen you posting on the other thread. Ignore me. Do what you think best. Flowers

MsMcWoodle · 10/04/2018 10:47

Red - I showed your post of 17:50 to my husband so he could understand how I feel.
The only thing that keeps me going is finding people here and on Twitter who understand - that and taking regular breaks from the madness.
Oh - and one more thing - getting off twitter and mumsnet and doing something that reaches out of the bubble - like emailing politicians. Then I feel less like my voice isn't being heard.
We have to keep going though. It's too important.

Mxyzptlk · 10/04/2018 10:22

The conveyor belt of elite university to media or think tank or policy making or politics means that this nonsense now occupies the top of all our institutions.

That is a very scary thought.

If you feel burnt out, take a step back from it all, while others keep going.

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 10/04/2018 10:19
Grin

I do community work in the local primary was delighted to see all the kids dancing around to the Shake It Off video

in my own work with them, my biggest problem is lyrics. Not swear words but crap like "I've been so lucky, I am the girl with golden hair"

Give me 2018 any day, And reckon Mary W's with me.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 10/04/2018 10:13

Ah sorry thanks I didn’t mean to be grumpy! I appreciate the sentiment truly Flowers

And I love the RP send up.

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 10/04/2018 10:06

Ah well, just trying to cheer folk up.

The Robert Palmer original shaped my adolescence. So discovering the Robert Palmer parody absolutely made my day (it's the number 1 video).

I'll bugger off and enjoy it.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 10/04/2018 09:55

That video posted by thanksforthatamazing actually demonstrates where things have gone wrong IMO.

Feminism used to have a real message. Now it has been co-opted by the capitalist patriarchy which allows women to do all their “fuck you! I’m a survivor, an independent woman who doesn’t need a man!” as long as they’re super skinny, prancing around in underwear and shaking their arses in our face as a form of empowerment.

It allows everyone to believe we’ve “made it” when we quite clearly haven’t, at the same time as causing a resentful backlash in men who see feminism as a “fuck you” message and who, let's face it, are eagerly looking for a reason to discredit it.

We’ve been hoodwinked.