If WEP decided Sex Matters would you join?

Do they know their arse from their elbow?

In any case it looks like it would be a case of political expediency. So no, I don't trust them. I would rather have a party that stands for all human beings, female, male and trans but is properly aware of the differences between them.

Doubt it. I would be suspicious of any party claiming to represent women who can get their biology so fundamentally screwed up. Do they know their arse from their elbow?

Yes

But I don't believe it'll happen.

Yes.

No. Partly because it won't happen. They have been very clear that their definition of 'woman' is 'anyone who identifies as one'. Sex matters is wholly incompatible with that stance, their actions this far including HB, and their current supporters and policy creators. The most they could hope for is a very muddled middle road. To go to a meaningful, genuine sex matters stance would mean to tear down the party and start it again from scratch.

Its sad they derailed so early and so entirely. What was probably meant as a genuine effort to be modern and inclusive has actually created a party that can't really represent women politically at all.

Yes.

It is possible for a party to be inclusive, intersectional and for equality without ignorantly demanding that "TWAW" and disciplining GC spokespeople like the WEP have been doing so far.

I would only join again if they publicly apologised to H.B.E. and made a statement that sex matters.

I would certainly consider voting for them, not sure I could bring myself to rejoin. As it is I’m more likely to vote Tory. Shudder.

No me neither.

Like others, I would not trust any rhetoric coming from WEP unless it was fully backed up by formal party policy/manifesto documents.

I would be cautious in the light of their treatment of Heather BE but yes, I would consider it - or at least voting for them if not joining as I am desperate to avoid spoiling my ballot.

what white handled said

Yes

No. I don't trust them. SW might well be feeling that a party bollock has been dropped and is attempting to ameliorate a situation which, as a Women's party, should never have occurred. The party's thinking around Woman is flawed. The treatment of HBE was appalling.

If they would push forwards women's interests in the self-id debate (or lack of) then I would support them for the duration. The same with pushing forwards a Nordic model for prostitution, and also with human trafficking and modern slavery.

I would also want them to stand up for child protection in the current mess of gaslighting that seems to be going on behind the scenes with 'trans rights', and more help for mental health issues that teenagers suffer. And more research into why this is happening.

I am not sure they can do that with so much TIM influence that has been shown so far.

See Toots I don't think the Fawcett are actually saying anything helpful there. All I read is that they focus on women's lived experiences and are inclusive. They recognise that gender is socially constructed but aren't really saying that biology must come first before gender.

I would vote for them in the coming local elections if they adopted a position similar to the Fawcett society www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/fawcetts-position-on-gender-identity

Until they do I can't vote for them.

'other' than inviting me to join the party.

Possibly, mostly what Lang said. However I don't know if I could ever really trust a party allegedly set out to specifically champion women's rights that so early on refused to differentiate between women and trans women. To start such a party but not be GC makes you wonder why they even bothered to put the word WOMEN in their party's name in the first place. Maybe they should've been called simply The Equality Party.

I feel so disappointed by them. When I tried to get into discussion with them about proposed amendments to the GRA they refused point blank to even acknowledge that the proposals would ever happen. Total swerve on the issue completely, and wouldn't discuss it with me further than inviting me to join the party.

I'd consider it.

Probably

This is the response I got to my fairly precisely worded complaint to the LDs. it's generic, bland and condescending. I'm posting it here as someone said they had left the party. If anyone leaves, please write and tell the LDs why so they can't keep dismissing the issue (and conflating it with intersex conditions).

It would appear you are complaining about the Liberal Democrats LGBT+ Twitter account. If that is the case, the Liberal Democrats LGBT+ are independent of the Party and comments on their site are their own and not the Party’s.

The Liberal Democrats strive to provide an inclusive and open environment and we are extremely proud of our record on LGBT+ issues.

As a party, we believe in people's right to self-identify and determine their own gender as a fundamental human right, and we celebrate this diversity and inclusivity. This includes being able to identify as an ‘X’ for those who do not wish to define themselves as male or female – which helps to reduce discrimination against transgender and intersex people.

We look to promote and work with minority groups at every opportunity within the party. The Liberal Democrats exist to represent, promote and encourage liberal values in our society and we strive for everyone to feel acceptance and understanding within the party regardless of age, race, gender or sexuality.

Very possibly. I'd need a clear, manifesto-led commitment to no self-ID GRA amendment, clarification and strengthening of EqA sex exemptions, and the Nordic model. Also something about redressing the impact austerity has had on low income women.

Mostly agreeing with Lang (as usual) but my answer is ‘Maybe’.

Being most concerned with the needs of low-income people, I’d like it if they’d go a bit more socialist, tbh. The ‘middle-class women’s issues party’ feel isn’t appealing.

I’d like them to steer clear of identity politics.

I don’t want them telling me that male people are/can be female people. I’m starting to care a great deal about grown adults expecting me to share this belief.

HBE is owed a massive apology and that episode needs to be reflected upon.

Bottom line: The WEPs approach to trans issues and how they’ve dealt with dissent hasn’t given me huge confidence in their judgement or integrity.