Dealing with inflammatory posts re Trans on MN

Oh I got into a long discussion with the 30% cis woman recently.

However, the conversation wasn't quite so angry and I felt she tried to listen, but everything I said was either transphobic or reducing women to their biology, which apparently was wrong as a feminist. She seems to have many friends with trans children.

There’s a woman on that twitter thread stating that 30% more “cis” women have AGP than men.

There are also people who claim the world is flat.

I agree about having the time to dress up full body rubber etc. Who can be bothered.

Totally off topic but whenever I hear about AGP or any fetishes really I just think ‘how do they find the time?’
I mean I’m fucking knackered, I’m lucky if I have the energy to get a quick 5 mins with a vibrator, there’s no way I could be arsed to create a full rubber suit and clop around my yard like a pony.
Do these people not have jobs?

I also think a lot of creative play in adults is framed as fetish because we frown upon adults playing in our culture, and actually lots of people just like to dress up and feel nice.
(This isn’t really about AGP just in general).

People on twitter say very strange things.

Eh? How does that one work then?

There’s a woman on that twitter thread stating that 30% more “cis” women have AGP than men.

Interesting discussion on the @mumsnettowers twitter. Usual accusations of transphobia - but this conversation thread as well:

twitter.com/Defend_Reality/status/984007607340949505

"Lol it’s a shame more transwomen aren’t political, if they knew a man wearing makeup with a beard is now considered trans they’d be pissed asf. Everytime I’ve brought it up they are like what? And I’m like yeah this is why the bathroom thing is going on"

I heartily agree.

Ophelia and terfing - see the 'In Active' thread. It seems likely that MNHQ are having the heat on them turned up.

Hurray for Hope :)

I think the idea that for some girls expressing as a boy in a contagion like fashion and with a comparison to anorexia is a very interesting observation. And it might well need some research.

Though I imagine that will be resisted by trans activists.

This is another area of this debate that has always mystified me, because I also think it shows a difference with then and now or transsexuals and transgender

I cannot imagine why anyone going through the kind of dysphoria we did would not want as much research as possible to uncover causes and the efficacy of treatment methods. When you have cancer you fight to raise funds for more research and to hope they find a cause and a new way of treating it that might help others in future suffer less.

I feel exactly that way about what happened to me. I have no idea what caused it and for me, personally, it no longer really matters as I have handled it and coped. But I sure as hell want to stop this same nightmare happening to others if it is possible as the dysphoria is insidious and horrible and if we can find a cause and from that cause maybe a way to treat it that others will choose as they find it less disruptive - then that is what anyone should want.

So when I see all this talk about it being a thing that just is and part of you and not an illness and we don't really need to know about it just accept it happens and get on with it I feel as apart from that kind of perspective as I suspect many of you do.

The desire to silence research or use terms like 'conversion cures' seems to me baffling and rather selfish because I keep thinking - don't you care if it is possible to make things better for your children or their children?

We should always seek to understand a puzzle as the first step to define the best ways to deal with it that cause less pain and suffering.

Oh dont worry the whats my gender one

ophelia

What?

Whats that about?

Please feel free to pm me if you would rather not say on here

terfing

Apparently it was "goading"
I thought it was light relief myself!

Hope is fab

yetanother and Italian, regarding your posts this morning on the reasons for increased numbers.

I agree that a few people will be coming forward now as a result of the internet, higher visibility and the creation of (hard to miss) trans mouthpieces.

What I think might be worth noting, though, is that these are likely to be often the ones with a lower degree of dysphoria or no actual dysphoria at all.

Because if you really have the kind of dysphoria yetanother and I had it is simply not possible to push it to one side and not be driven to seek some kind of solution. Even if you have no idea there is one available because it is not talked about as now then you know something is wrong and if you are in any way sensible you seek help to try to resolve it.

I think this is part of what characterises the difference between transsexuals and transgender people more broadly. Whether there are other causes. How relevant it is that one focuses on reassigning the body physically and the other can be content just by doing so socially or dressing differently - the overriding difference is the depth of the dysphoria that is either something you can live with or not.

Those with that deep dysphoria were so relieved after years of suffering to feel 'normal' that there was no urge to create movements or campaigns or bonding sessions. The whole focus of transition was to blend in and become not create a new type of person to stand out.

The way the activists are out there in your face is in a huge contrast and further emphasises to me differences not similarities. Though, of course, some of that is generational.

A social media society post the Millennium is going to create sharp divisions in how things are done. But I still think those who physically transition have less of an overt desire to declare themselves something other because the point of the transition was to become something that was.

Not saying that is what was achieved, but being the purpose that drives physical transition that is not there otherwise, it creates a desire for inclusion and seclusion versus a desire for expression and declaration for those who see themselves as a new type of person and want to challenge self expression.

As these are the ones more likely to be experimenting around us it is no surprise at all to me to see the huge rise in numbers of children and the increasing numbers of girls declaring they are trans boys.

The trans boys who were transsexual will not have had the luxury of waiting and not acting until a social revolution arrived. They will have been driven to come forward and seek medical assistance. And did exactly that. As trans men have always existed.

Half of the first handful of cases dealt with by doctors before world war 2 were trans men. 15 years ago, long before this revolution, just under 30% of those getting a GRC were trans men.

Should have refreshed first

On the subject of anorexia, eating disorders are massively over represented in autistic people. Who can guess where this sentence is going...?

Yes that was an embarrassingly stupid tweet from Peter Tatchell - would it be better for trans people to die from drug complications because their doctors were scared of triggering them if they asked about their current medication?

Hope Pink has done a lot. Isn't he the one who takes selfies dressed up to the nines in men's loos with captions saying how he is never harassed?

It's really interesting that he is now identifying as a man.

I do get the impression that the longer some men (with gender dysphoria) are surrounded by radical feminism, the quicker they get it, and it does sometimes alter their perception of themselves.

Then you've got Peter Tatchell on Twitter saying how awful it was that a transman with a broken arm was asked about her medical history.

Cue dozens of posts saying if she's on T she could have osteoporosis, she can't have an x-ray if she's pregnant, certain meds would be contra indicated, etc.

He had zero clue that every woman, every single woman, is asked these questions. It's nothing to do with being trans. It is to do with having a sexed body that is different to that of a man. And how medication works on it.

I wish men like him could be injected with the little bit of radical feminism that seems to be working wonders on people like Hope Pink and Miranda Yardley.

Feminism is logical. People call it a philosophy, an ideology, but, to me it's just plain logic. Based on evidence and statistics.

Men pride themselves on being logical, don't they? You'd think they'd get it then.

All the best to you, Hope Pink.

I think some new joiners have this impression and are therefore posting positive content about trans people even though it has no relevance to feminism or impact on women and girls

If they'd take the trouble to look around the forum it would be apparent that there isn't a lack of information or understanding of the issues, and much of the stuff being plopped is material long since shared and discussed here.

It reminds me of Six O Clock Charlie from MASH, someone whizzing by, lobbing something randomly positive at MN FWR board and zooming away again. Doesn't do much to help really.

I'd never heard of Hope Pink, thank you for sharing that! Now that's a man who is a real role model; an intelligent and reasoned voice expanding the 'bandwidth' of what men look like, what their names are, what their choices of clothes and appearance might be, and being himself without regard for gender conformity. He and Miranda Yardley are brilliant examples of positive gender freedom, and what is needed is a strong campaign on reducing male violence and policing of masculinity.

And i agree with others

I dont do twitter either

Is there any other way of showing support?

Same with that Jena lady on the FGM thread

IM NOT ON TWITTER BUT IF I WAS I WOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE YOUR BACK

(That probably means nothing if I'm not on twitter )

Never heard of Hope Pink before this but they sound awesome

Brilliant, Hope Pink, loved the article. I don't do Twitter either and would also like to show support.